[magkelly]

You know I thought I was in the middle of the liberal side of the spectrum compared to most of you. But now I am beginning to realize that I am far more conservative than many people around here and clearly some people around here don't like me much for that. I think from now on I am going to avoid the political forum and just concentrate on talking about things photographic that are not related to subjects like the one I just found myself talking about. From now on it's all lenses, lenses, lenses, and maybe once in a great while talking about demonic squirrels...

[shooz]

I'm sorry if I offended you.
We do get a bit wild in here sometimes.
We are all a mix of these things.
It helps to get it out sometimes.
Thanks for reminding us why we are here in the first place..........
Please don't be a stranger in P&R.
Just put us in our places when you feel you need to.

Me?
I think I'll go watch a baseball game..............
Go Tigers!!!!!!!!!

Sometimes the angle of shot can be so important.............
BTW He thew a strike.
He does this on the end of every pitch and never falls over.

[Parallax]

I agree with everything shooz said.
(Well, except for the baseball part. I hate all sports that involve a team and a ball.)

[magkelly]

Well, getting threatened with the FBI knocking on my door that kind of scorched my feelings there for a minute. Also, made me worry about where to stash all those bootlegs that I uh, collected. It's not my picture taking I'd be worried about. My media collection on the other hand might get my arse in trouble. I've done my share of "acquiring" media I shouldn't over the years on and offline. (blush) A pedos banner of shame I will never wear but I do think I have a Captain Jack (Depp) style cap somewhere in the back of my wardrobe.

Probably should if I don't, cough. (My ebook collection would put any branch of the NYC public library except maybe the main to shame and no, not all of it is perfectly legit. My bad, but true. I will not deny.) They'd probably put me in the hokey for my movies, my books, and my mp3's rather than what they came for.

I'd rather not go to jail for watching bootleg Dr Who, I'm just sayin... ;P

OH, speaking of, I forgot SEASON ENDER tonight, oops!

Oh wait, today's Friday...

Never mind...

[TomK]

and maybe once in a great while talking about demonic squirrels...

There you go bringing up the Tea Party again!

[Wheatfield]

Well, getting threatened with the FBI knocking on my door that kind of scorched my feelings there for a minute.

OK, that was the intention, though I was hoping for just a chill down the spine, not a full fledged panic attack.
My point of posting that was to (hopefully) make you understand what effect the attitude you put forward might have on a person who happens to have a (innocent) passion for photographing kids.
I hope I didn't cause you too much discomfort, but if I did, it is the same discomfort your attitude causes.

[magkelly]

There you go bringing up the Tea Party again!

LOL! Actually I was thinking of our resident sorcerer squirrel Ortis and his apparently Mephistophelian mentor. All that squirrel needed was a tiny twirl to his whiskers to make the comparison complete. That post had me laughing my arse off!

[magkelly]

OK, that was the intention, though I was hoping for just a chill down the spine, not a full fledged panic attack.

No panic, just a slight twinge of annoyance and a quick thought towards my not so little collection of illicitly gotten mp3's, books etc, laugh. You'd have to know me in person, but they'd never ever believe I had any intent to harm a kid. Anyone who's with me for more than 5 seconds knows how pissy I can be when it comes to anyone messing around with a kid in my custody. I'm freakin Mary Poppins, have been all my life. Kids fear me alright but not because they think I might ever do THAT.

They are far more worried about the eyes I apparently have growing in back of my head. I was the toughest babysitter most of them have ever had. Most of my "kids" grew up and made me real proud. I still get pics of them sometimes, usually from them, and some of them even have kids now. That's a bit weird.

I have a little trouble with that knowing kids I helped raise are having kids. I'm an honorary godmother several times over but I don't feel old enough to be someone's grandma at my age, but it is technically possible if I'd have started in my late teens maybe. I'm a willing auntie though. One set of nieces and nephews are getting out of high school though, and another set actually has kids. Most of the little ones in the family are their kids now. I'm still technically young enough to have some of my own but I'm pretty over the urge.

I'm getting freakin old, sigh...

[séamuis]

Nobody ever accused you of being 'THAT', so I'm not sure why you feel you need to defend yourself in that regard. As for wheatfields comment, I can't say I disagree with his tactic, even if it is harsh, because he was trying to show you something, make you see and feel something, but I'm not sure you got it. As for this section of the forum, my best advice is to ne'er come here if you aren't willing to speak up and defend yourself. It doesn't matter what you believe really, which way you 'swing'. Heated or not we are all here to discuss real issues, nit all of which are easy and friendly. Intelligence, and a thick hide are about all that's required.

[newarts]

You know I thought I was in the middle of the liberal side of the spectrum compared to most of you. But now I am beginning to realize that I am far more conservative than many people around here and clearly some people around here don't like me much for that. .....

I find your point of view valuable and would appreciate continuing to hear it.

Dave

[MRRiley]

I'm not sure why you would be so surprised to be confronted with strong resistance on a photography forum to the idea that because some pedophiles use cameras that everyone who uses a camera to take photos of kids in public is a likely pedophile.

I'm not sure why you would be so surprised when photographers object to the mistaken notion that children should be afforded extra privacy while in public despite the fact that when anyone is in public they have NO expectation of privacy.

I'm not sure why you should be so surprised when people attempt to give you examples and opportunities to see the issue in the light of yourself being the one unjustly accused. Were certain attempts rather aggressive? I'd have to agree, but you must admit that this shows the depth of the objections to what we see as a violation of a basic tenent that people are innocent until proven guilty, not until they are assumed or presumed to be guilty based upon incoherent and irrational fears.

And finally, while I will not apologize for the position I hold, if something I said or the way I said it insulted you or prompted your withdrawal from the dialog, I apologize and ask you to reconsider. The fact that we find your position unfathomable does not mean it does not have a place in the discussion so I ask you to re-engage...

Mike

[Wheatfield]

No panic, just a slight twinge of annoyance and a quick thought towards my not so little collection of illicitly gotten mp3's, books etc, laugh. You'd have to know me in person, but they'd never ever believe I had any intent to harm a kid.

I think you've missed the point again.
Probably 99.9999999002% of people have no intent to harm a kid, and I have very strong doubts that carrying a camera changes the odds to a great extent.
However, lets make up a story, based on an incident reported in your other thread.

A middle aged white guy is trying to take pictures of someone's kid playing in the surf at the beach. For the sake of, let us also presume that this is an innocent act of photographic enthusiasm, that this person has the same passion for this sort of photography that many people have for landscape photography.
IE: He has no bad intent.
However daddy chases him off for no reason other than unrelenting paranoia and a willingness to ignore the law.
Sometime later, perhaps the next week daddy is walking down the street with mommy and sees the guy in a park full of children, and again, he is taking pictures. This time, it's of flowers, but daddy doesn't care, all daddy sees is the same pedo that he saw at the beach.
And so he tells mommy that there is the pedo he saw the other day.
And so, presuming the worst, they decide that "for the children" they had better involve the police.
Now, the guy is arrested, and interrogated (and since no one likes a pedo, it is probably not over coffee at Starbucks, his house is tossed, his computer is confiscated, his wife and kids are also questioned (and probably quite terrified in the process), his co workers get visits from the police, and on and on.
No evidence is found that he is what mommy and daddy think he is, but the damage is done. He's been investigated as a pedophile, and everyone he knows, including the people on his email contacts list knows it too.
He no longer has a job, his wife has left him and taken the kids with her and moved to another state.
His life, for all effect, is over.

All this because one paranoid busy body decided to make a bad decision.

Even if it doesn't go that far, the guy may still be stigmatized as the creepy guy around town who likes "taking pictures of little girls" when he was doing nothing wrong, had no bad intent, and is probably a really decent guy. He just happens to have a harmless hobby that the people around him don't understand.
Some people like taking pictures of architecture, they get harassed for being potential terrorist bombers.
It's the same attitude in both situations, and it harms both the target of the paranoia, and let's face it, it hurts the person with the irrational fear as well.
One person is afraid to leave the house with his camera, so we've taken his artistic outlet from him, the other person is looking for the boogeyman behind every rock, and is incapable of having a normal life because they are afraid all the time.

[MRRiley]

Exactly what I was saying in the original thread Bill.

[BillM]

Probably 99.9999999002% of people have any intent to harm a kid

Correct me if Im wrong.Dont statistics indicate kids are in for a lot of trouble?
Doesnt say much for people anywhere.

[Wheatfield]

Thanks Bill. Fixed now.