Pentax SMC Patents transferred to Ricoh??

yakiniku · 10-04-2011, 09:29 PM

Does anyone have information on whether Pentax's patents such as the SMC etc. has been transferred to Ricoh with the recent acquisition?
I heard Hoya may have re-registered a lot of Pentax's patents to Hoya when it was under Hoya.

séamuis · 10-05-2011, 02:41 AM

Originally posted by yakiniku

Does anyone have information on whether Pentax's patents such as the SMC etc. has been transferred to Ricoh with the recent acquisition?
I heard Hoya may have re-registered a lot of Pentax's patents to Hoya when it was under Hoya.

I wouldn’t know anything about this, personally but considering that Hoya is a glass manufacturing company, having something like SMC would certainly make sense as a business asset. I don’t know how it would compare to their own multi-coating technologies or how this could possibly affect anything consumer wise in regards to Ricoh and lenses, as Hoya seemed to make it clear that they would work with Ricoh to help further the Pentax brand name. if you’re worried that Ricoh won’t be able to use SMC, I think thats highly unlikely. and since I can’t see any other reason to worry about the owner of the patents, I’m not sure what you are trying to uncover. but it would certainly be interesting to know more about the split and ownership of all things Pentax.

aurele · 10-05-2011, 02:47 AM

Originally posted by yakiniku

I heard Hoya may have re-registered a lot of Pentax's patents to Hoya when it was under Hoya.

Normally, Patent can't be re-done on a tech already Patented by the past (at least in France, and i guess it's the same in the US.)

But considering Pentax sligly changed its coating on every new version of any glass (and may have been re-patented each time), i think their SMC patent should maintain their properties at least until 2020-2030

yakiniku · 10-05-2011, 04:52 AM

But patents can be sold right? So is it possible Hoya can change ownership of the patents to their own?
I'm sure Pentax under Ricoh can keep using SMC, but just it would be ironic if Pentax has to get licensed from Hoya to use their own proud SMC.

séamuis · 10-05-2011, 05:35 AM

Originally posted by yakiniku

But patents can be sold right? So is it possible Hoya can change ownership of the patents to their own?
I'm sure Pentax under Ricoh can keep using SMC, but just it would be ironic if Pentax has to get licensed from Hoya to use their own proud SMC.

if that were the case, for which I am unsure of, it wouldn’t be Pentax that is building the lenses using the SMC coating, it would be Ricoh. Pentax essentially stopped making anything as itself the day it was bought by Hoya, if I understand it all. Pentax owned itself, now it doesn't. so the owner is the one using the technology, not ‘Pentax’. some people here disagree, but the way I understand it, Pentax is just a brand now, not an actual company. so the saying would be “Ricoh using Pentax invented, Hoya owned SMC technology on Pentax branded lenses.’ not ‘Pentax using Hoya owned, Pentax invented SMC technology on Pentax branded lenses.’

but then I don’t know much about all this and I don’t know enough about what ‘Pentax’ actually is anymore to say. its all frightfully confusing really.

reeftool · 10-05-2011, 05:56 AM

Pentax has a lot of patents so I doubt if Ricoh overlooked this. At the least, there is an agreement that Pentax still has the rights to use those patents on Pentax branded products without a license fee, even if ownership of the patents stays with Hoya. If Ricoh overlooked this, then the product is doomed from the start.

BillM · 10-06-2011, 10:09 AM

Hoya filters seem to imply SMC is their's. Any changes would have to be indicated
on package wouldnt it? Have a relative thats a patent attorney and loves
to talk about this kind of stuff. With upcoming family reunion,guess we have more
"fat to chew" that whats on the ribs.

séamuis · 10-06-2011, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by BillM

Hoya filters seem to imply SMC is their's.

I think you may be confusing ‘HMC’ (Hoya-Multi-Coating) & ’SHMC’ (Super HMC) with SMC (Super-Multi-Coating).

Blue · 10-06-2011, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

I wouldn’t know anything about this, personally but considering that Hoya is a glass manufacturing company, having something like SMC would certainly make sense as a business asset. I don’t know how it would compare to their own multi-coating technologies or how this could possibly affect anything consumer wise in regards to Ricoh and lenses, as Hoya seemed to make it clear that they would work with Ricoh to help further the Pentax brand name. if you’re worried that Ricoh won’t be able to use SMC, I think thats highly unlikely. and since I can’t see any other reason to worry about the owner of the patents, I’m not sure what you are trying to uncover. but it would certainly be interesting to know more about the split and ownership of all things Pentax.

Actually, Ricoh bought a company that was created and divested by Hoya. That what has been going on the past 3 months, Hoya transferring the parts of Pentax being sold to a company.

Blue · 10-06-2011, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by reeftool

Pentax has a lot of patents so I doubt if Ricoh overlooked this. At the least, there is an agreement that Pentax still has the rights to use those patents on Pentax branded products without a license fee, even if ownership of the patents stays with Hoya. If Ricoh overlooked this, then the product is doomed from the start.

I would think Ricoh would have been very aware of the significance of the SMC, Ghostless Coating, SP and Aero Bright coatings.

BillM · 10-06-2011, 07:57 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

I think you may be confusing ‘HMC’ (Hoya-Multi-Coating) & ’SHMC’ (Super HMC) with SMC (Super-Multi-Coating).

No confusion what so ever. Did Search for "Super Multi Coating" on various
search engine's and hoya filter was pointed at. By both myself and others,results were
the same.More of an issue outside this site than in it.
Everybody here knows whats being talked about when "SMC" is mentioned,dont they?

séamuis · 10-06-2011, 10:01 PM

Originally posted by BillM

No confusion what so ever. Did Search for "Super Multi Coating" on various
search engine's and hoya filter was pointed at. By both myself and others,results were
the same.More of an issue outside this site than in it.
Everybody here knows whats being talked about when "SMC" is mentioned,dont they?

except there are no filters that you can point to that actually mention smc? I can’t find any mention of smc on hoyas filter website. I am going to assume anyone who talks about hoya filters and smc together likely mislabeled smc and (s)hmc. would you care to point me in the direction of any smc hoya products?

BillM · 10-07-2011, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

assume anyone who talks about hoya filters and smc together likely mislabeled smc and (s)hmc

If your worried about it,you'll have to get together with U.S. federal trade commission
to fix it.

séamuis · 10-08-2011, 08:17 AM

Originally posted by BillM

If your worried about it,you'll have to get together with U.S. federal trade commission
to fix it.

huh? I’m just asking for any evidence of hoya using smc, such as you eluded to. i personally don't much care who owns the patent.

Blue · 10-08-2011, 11:08 AM

Originally posted by BillM

If your worried about it,you'll have to get together with U.S. federal trade commission
to fix it.

What do they have to do with a loose search term that pulls up a lot of related hits. Google doesn't determine the difference between Hoya's proprietary coating HMC and Pentax's proprietary coating.

10-04-2011, 09:29 PM	#1
yakiniku Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74	Pentax SMC Patents transferred to Ricoh?? Does anyone have information on whether Pentax's patents such as the SMC etc. has been transferred to Ricoh with the recent acquisition? I heard Hoya may have re-registered a lot of Pentax's patents to Hoya when it was under Hoya.

10-06-2011, 02:04 PM	#9
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by séamuis I wouldn’t know anything about this, personally but considering that Hoya is a glass manufacturing company, having something like SMC would certainly make sense as a business asset. I don’t know how it would compare to their own multi-coating technologies or how this could possibly affect anything consumer wise in regards to Ricoh and lenses, as Hoya seemed to make it clear that they would work with Ricoh to help further the Pentax brand name. if you’re worried that Ricoh won’t be able to use SMC, I think thats highly unlikely. and since I can’t see any other reason to worry about the owner of the patents, I’m not sure what you are trying to uncover. but it would certainly be interesting to know more about the split and ownership of all things Pentax. Actually, Ricoh bought a company that was created and divested by Hoya. That what has been going on the past 3 months, Hoya transferring the parts of Pentax being sold to a company. Last edited by Blue; 10-06-2011 at 02:10 PM.

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10-05-2011, 02:41 AM	#2
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by yakiniku Does anyone have information on whether Pentax's patents such as the SMC etc. has been transferred to Ricoh with the recent acquisition? I heard Hoya may have re-registered a lot of Pentax's patents to Hoya when it was under Hoya. I wouldn’t know anything about this, personally but considering that Hoya is a glass manufacturing company, having something like SMC would certainly make sense as a business asset. I don’t know how it would compare to their own multi-coating technologies or how this could possibly affect anything consumer wise in regards to Ricoh and lenses, as Hoya seemed to make it clear that they would work with Ricoh to help further the Pentax brand name. if you’re worried that Ricoh won’t be able to use SMC, I think thats highly unlikely. and since I can’t see any other reason to worry about the owner of the patents, I’m not sure what you are trying to uncover. but it would certainly be interesting to know more about the split and ownership of all things Pentax.

10-05-2011, 02:47 AM	#3
aurele Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Paris, France Photos: Albums Posts: 3,217	Originally posted by yakiniku I heard Hoya may have re-registered a lot of Pentax's patents to Hoya when it was under Hoya. Normally, Patent can't be re-done on a tech already Patented by the past (at least in France, and i guess it's the same in the US.) But considering Pentax sligly changed its coating on every new version of any glass (and may have been re-patented each time), i think their SMC patent should maintain their properties at least until 2020-2030

10-05-2011, 04:52 AM	#4
yakiniku Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 74 Original Poster	But patents can be sold right? So is it possible Hoya can change ownership of the patents to their own? I'm sure Pentax under Ricoh can keep using SMC, but just it would be ironic if Pentax has to get licensed from Hoya to use their own proud SMC.

10-05-2011, 05:35 AM	#5
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by yakiniku But patents can be sold right? So is it possible Hoya can change ownership of the patents to their own? I'm sure Pentax under Ricoh can keep using SMC, but just it would be ironic if Pentax has to get licensed from Hoya to use their own proud SMC. if that were the case, for which I am unsure of, it wouldn’t be Pentax that is building the lenses using the SMC coating, it would be Ricoh. Pentax essentially stopped making anything as itself the day it was bought by Hoya, if I understand it all. Pentax owned itself, now it doesn't. so the owner is the one using the technology, not ‘Pentax’. some people here disagree, but the way I understand it, Pentax is just a brand now, not an actual company. so the saying would be “Ricoh using Pentax invented, Hoya owned SMC technology on Pentax branded lenses.’ not ‘Pentax using Hoya owned, Pentax invented SMC technology on Pentax branded lenses.’ but then I don’t know much about all this and I don’t know enough about what ‘Pentax’ actually is anymore to say. its all frightfully confusing really.

10-05-2011, 05:56 AM	#6
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Pentax has a lot of patents so I doubt if Ricoh overlooked this. At the least, there is an agreement that Pentax still has the rights to use those patents on Pentax branded products without a license fee, even if ownership of the patents stays with Hoya. If Ricoh overlooked this, then the product is doomed from the start.

10-06-2011, 10:09 AM	#7
BillM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ferguson, Mo. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,348	Hoya filters seem to imply SMC is their's. Any changes would have to be indicated on package wouldnt it? Have a relative thats a patent attorney and loves to talk about this kind of stuff. With upcoming family reunion,guess we have more "fat to chew" that whats on the ribs.

10-06-2011, 11:26 AM	#8
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by BillM Hoya filters seem to imply SMC is their's. I think you may be confusing ‘HMC’ (Hoya-Multi-Coating) & ’SHMC’ (Super HMC) with SMC (Super-Multi-Coating).

10-06-2011, 02:05 PM	#10
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by reeftool Pentax has a lot of patents so I doubt if Ricoh overlooked this. At the least, there is an agreement that Pentax still has the rights to use those patents on Pentax branded products without a license fee, even if ownership of the patents stays with Hoya. If Ricoh overlooked this, then the product is doomed from the start. I would think Ricoh would have been very aware of the significance of the SMC, Ghostless Coating, SP and Aero Bright coatings.

10-06-2011, 07:57 PM	#11
BillM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ferguson, Mo. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,348	Originally posted by séamuis I think you may be confusing ‘HMC’ (Hoya-Multi-Coating) & ’SHMC’ (Super HMC) with SMC (Super-Multi-Coating). No confusion what so ever. Did Search for "Super Multi Coating" on various search engine's and hoya filter was pointed at. By both myself and others,results were the same.More of an issue outside this site than in it. Everybody here knows whats being talked about when "SMC" is mentioned,dont they?

10-06-2011, 10:01 PM	#12
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by BillM No confusion what so ever. Did Search for "Super Multi Coating" on various search engine's and hoya filter was pointed at. By both myself and others,results were the same.More of an issue outside this site than in it. Everybody here knows whats being talked about when "SMC" is mentioned,dont they? except there are no filters that you can point to that actually mention smc? I can’t find any mention of smc on hoyas filter website. I am going to assume anyone who talks about hoya filters and smc together likely mislabeled smc and (s)hmc. would you care to point me in the direction of any smc hoya products?

10-07-2011, 11:18 PM	#13
BillM Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Ferguson, Mo. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,348	Originally posted by séamuis assume anyone who talks about hoya filters and smc together likely mislabeled smc and (s)hmc If your worried about it,you'll have to get together with U.S. federal trade commission to fix it.

10-08-2011, 08:17 AM	#14
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by BillM If your worried about it,you'll have to get together with U.S. federal trade commission to fix it. huh? I’m just asking for any evidence of hoya using smc, such as you eluded to. i personally don't much care who owns the patent.

10-08-2011, 11:08 AM	#15
Blue Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Florida Hill Country Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,377	Originally posted by BillM If your worried about it,you'll have to get together with U.S. federal trade commission to fix it. What do they have to do with a loose search term that pulls up a lot of related hits. Google doesn't determine the difference between Hoya's proprietary coating HMC and Pentax's proprietary coating.

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