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10-10-2011, 06:56 AM   #1
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Happy Thanks Giving to all

For each new morning with its light,
For rest and shelter of the night,
For health and food,
For love and friends,
For everything Thy goodness sends.

- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)

10-10-2011, 08:00 AM   #2
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Nice, but why is it in the Politics and Religion section?
10-10-2011, 08:12 AM   #3
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Don't worry Gene leave it there long enough and somebody will find a reason to take offense then it will be "Game On".
BTW is it Canadian Thanksgiving?
10-10-2011, 08:13 AM   #4
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The Life we have is very great.
The Life that we shall see
Surpasses it, we know, because
It is Infinity.
But when all Space has been beheld
And all Dominion shown
The smallest Human Heart's extent
Reduces it to none.

-Emily Dickinson

10-10-2011, 08:37 AM - 1 Like   #5
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You're about a month and a half too early.

Today is Columbus Day, where we in the US celebrate Columbus' genocide of the Taino, rather than Thanksgiving where we celebrate the Native Americans keeping a few fundies alive. That those fundies would turn around and commit genocide against them is also celebrated.

There, now it is in the appropriate forum.

Last edited by boriscleto; 10-10-2011 at 08:44 AM.
10-10-2011, 08:47 AM   #6
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Coincidentally, I just booked my airline tickets to spend U.S. Thanksgiving with family.
10-10-2011, 10:04 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
You're about a month and a half too early.

Today is Columbus Day, where we in the US celebrate Columbus' genocide of the Taino, rather than Thanksgiving where we celebrate the Native Americans keeping a few fundies alive. That those fundies would turn around and commit genocide against them is also celebrated.

There, now it is in the appropriate forum.
Heh. I really have come to think it's pretty late in the year for a harvest festival, but I do love a turkey dinner.

Interestingly, some present-day Fundies (Some of the kind of folks who support the revisionist Talibangelical types bthat the Republican field panders to and has 'values events' about, only they like to attempt some kind of Christianist black magic about bringing harm to people they don't like) are trying to do some kind of 'spiritual warfare' cause they don't like DC being called the District of Columbia cause they think the way the US uses a lot of Goddesses for symbols is 'idolatrous' and they want to try and make a Fundie theocracy. You know, the general, 'We must abolish religious freedom any sign of non-politically-conservative-Christianity or else our religious freedom is threatened!' game.

(And, no, "idolatry" is not what they mean by that when they put up those symbols. Maybe it's what *I* see in them, but I am, after all, actually Pagan. To non-Pagans, they're just symbols of Classical virtues and ideals, etc. I think we could stand to hearken to some of those, in either sense, myself. Of course, them being wrong about calling our national symbols 'Filthy Paganism' doesn't mean they understand *Paganism,* either: they seem to be under the misapprehension that everyone actually lives our spiritual lives acting out their own shallow and hostile portrayals of every other religion in the country, and history. (It also means that in these 'Values Voter' summits and political prayer rallies, they're actively spreading hate against my people.... Without even mincing their words as they're doing with the Mormons, and sometimes Catholics, (who for their part may be learning that attacking the rights of others and spending lots of money and influence to try and enforce their version of right-wing Christianity doesn't mean *they* will be treated like one of the club, when it comes down to brass tacks. NOM and them will take their money and votes, but will still call them a 'cult,' (Actually, their religious establishment kind of *is* a 'cult' by structure and tactics, but that's not because they don't pass muster in Evangelical orthodoxy: it's cause of how they organize their power and authority and exercise control. You could say the same of a lot of Christian groups that the Christian Right likes just fine: they call the Mormons a 'cult' cause they're a little *different.* ) Still, when they start saying things like 'Filthy Paganism' or just implying it, substitute 'Jewish' or 'Papist' and maybe think of where that goes. And, yes, a lot of these speakers at the 'Values Voter' events and endorsements have a history of throwing religious hatred toward Native Americans, too. )

....But, again, they're doing this whole thing, 'If we don't make this a this a conservative-Christian-(Protestant-only) nation, our religious freedom is threatened!" Which is very Puritan, when you think of it. But the scary part is there's not a one in the GOP field that isn't pandering to that type. Even Romney's at best been lukewarm about demurring a little, while still trying to say 'A Mormon can pursue this agenda, too!'

What a mess, eh?

See, now we've got some appropriate controversy.


But I can dig up some Emerson or Thoreau. Poetry's good.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 10-10-2011 at 11:08 AM.
10-10-2011, 10:04 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Today is Columbus Day,
In South Dakota, by State law, today is Native American Day.

10-10-2011, 10:13 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Heh. I really have come to think it's pretty late in the year for a harvest festival, but I do love a turkey dinner.



I posted that in honor of the Canadian Thanksgiving...

This time of year is so interesting from a pagan perspective, what with Halloween and Thanksgiving and Yule...
10-10-2011, 10:28 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
In South Dakota, by State law, today is Native American Day.
But I live in state whose governor has the last name of Cuomo. His father was named Mario. If you even suggest changing the name of the holiday you'll be sleeping with the fishes.
10-10-2011, 12:12 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote


I posted that in honor of the Canadian Thanksgiving...

This time of year is so interesting from a pagan perspective, what with Halloween and Thanksgiving and Yule...
Well, in the US, with the way the secular and Christian holidays splay out, you can be pretty partied-out by the time the calendar New Year rolls around. (Yule's not a harvest festival, but ours basically start at Lugnasadh in early August. ) It's been even 'worse' when I was closer to Jewish friends and their families. or when there'd be my sweetie's office parties, and the unofficial office parties, *pant.* It can be like, 'OK, here comes Samhain, time to start cooking, I'll see you when Dick Clark's on... At which point, no, I won't be up for going out drinking. )

But, yeah, the 'harvest' holidays are typically late-summer-to-Samhain for us, Yule's very much a winter holiday, despite 'turkey day' sort of seeming to stretch it all into one big 'holiday season.' (Which, I believe, is actually a fair decent time to cull turkeys in New England, though there's some comic stuff about that: *wild* turkeys were overhunted, thus ended up protected, which in the fullness of centuries ended up with wild turkeys being somewhat restored, but also quite fearless of suburbanites, and as I found out, kind of terrorizing a town usually pretty devoid of wild fauna bigger than the occasional raccoon. Which is kind of a delightful sight, but led to a pretty amusing Thanksgiving story when I went to see the folks, decided to walk from the bus stop, and found myself surrounded by aggressive wild turkeys. See, I was garbed in a sort of Gothy-version of 'Dressed nice' ...which I guess didn't look entirely un-pilgrim-like. ...Non-alarmed at first by these emu-sized creatures as I walked, since normally turkeys don't approach, I didn't think much of it when one started walking alongside me, apparently asking for some food. In true downtown fashion, I'm like, "Ah, you know, I got nothing for you man. Big fan of your work, though...." This went on for a little while, it slowly dawned on my street instincts that I was sort of flanked and followed, and then, sure enough, cut off, so I'm thinking, ....'I'm about to get mugged by traditional dinner on Thanksgiving.' Sure enough, the turkeys close in and start shaking me down/posturing all territorial, ...Now, since I'd been traveling alone by bus, I had my collapsible numchucks in my pocket, so when the lead bird started getting up in my face pretty literally, I sort of hopped into the street, and whipped them out to square em off in a Bruce Lee kind of pose, (And, I spoke one of my lifetime classic lines, "All right, what do you turkeys want?" ) But the better part was how it must have looked to the old lady driving by. )

(Passing cars, or my own posturing, did cause the turkeys to back off after a bit, which is good: one thing that was abundantly clear was that my martial arts training did not actually cover multiple large flightless birds that probably keep half their brains in their spines.


Anyway, that's my best Thanksgiving story.

Yule kind of counts as a different 'time of year' to us though, but a lot of the seasonal customs familiar in North America really do come from our various Pagan ancestries: Christian folks just don't necessarily attach the spiritual meaning to the seasons themselves or really acknowledge or understand the symbols. (Which, by the way, pretty much don't mean you're praying to someone else's Gods. Yule logs might be a bit iffy that way, but you're pretty much in the clear for the rest, even by your own standards, I should think. The people who appropriated the customs weren't looking to cheese off any jealous desert Gods, after all. It's really not unlike how they 'converted' a lot of Native Americans: they just did it to our European ancestors sooner. Frankly, it's where they learned how. Most of that stuff's about the *season,* which to a Pagan mindset is part of religion, but it isn't as such like about... I dunno how you say it, the way some people assume/insist things are about exclusive fealty? It's about the season. Everyone lives through the seasons. Ain't bad to share. )


(And, Boris

QuoteQuote:
But I live in state whose governor has the last name of Cuomo. His father was named Mario. If you even suggest changing the name of the holiday you'll be sleeping with the fishes.
It's kind of a thin premise for 'Italian Pride,' if you asked me, but the holiday has in fact functioned that way in American history, a little like what I like to call 'All Paddies' Day,' ...but especially in a lot of places, it meant sort of a connection between the Italian-American community and the nation, so it can be kind of a big deal on that count. Even if it's got colonialist problems and all.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 10-10-2011 at 12:22 PM.
10-11-2011, 04:52 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Coincidentally, I just booked my airline tickets to spend U.S. Thanksgiving with family.
Your family, or someone else's?
10-11-2011, 05:23 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Nice, but why is it in the Politics and Religion section?
I think it all started by thanking God for turkeys. Not really up on it, though.
10-11-2011, 05:54 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by cardinal43 Quote
Your family, or someone else's?
My wife's family. (I consider them mine, now)
10-12-2011, 03:26 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by SpecialK Quote
I think it all started by thanking God for turkeys. Not really up on it, though.
Well, it's generally the custom of my people to thank the *turkeys* first, (Well, after the hearthfire, in some cases,) Maybe that shouldn't be cause for controversy, but it can be religious. Especially with the gravy. And stuffing. And potatoes. You could be like, 'Goddess, Ma, this is good stuff. ' Very interfaith. Like in a good way, for once.
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