[jeffkrol]

Yes, the [modern] traditional sense.
It is highly unlikely, given the historical as well as anecdotal accounts of the events surrounding Christ's birth, that it occurred in December.

Yahoshua (Jesus) the Christ was not born on December 25, as many Christians have been taught to believe. Scholarly research on the subject shows he was born on or around 1 Tishri on the Hebrew Calendar - the first day of the Hebrew Civil New year - which at that time, corresponded to about September 29 on the modern Julian Calendar.

Saturnalia - the original “Christmas”

The early church, in an attempt to convert the heathen and pagans “Christianized” the Roman pagan holiday of Saturnalia by celebrating Christ’s birth on that date.

“This festival on December 25th was in existence long centuries before Jesus was born. It was a pagan festival, to which a Christian terminology has been applied and most of our Christmas customs (nice though some of them have become) are of pagan origin. It was the old Babylonian Feast of Bacchus, the drunken Festival. In Rome, December 25th was the Feast of Saturn, and like the Babylonian feast from which it derived, was also a feast of unrestricted drunkenness. What is perhaps our commonest Christmas custom, the Christmas Tree, was just as common in pagan Egypt and Rome, but in Egypt it was a palm tree while in Rome it was a fir tree.”1

http://www.mainemediaresources.com/mpl_christbirthdate.htm

Ask any Jehovah's Witness.......

[GeneV]

Yes, the [modern] traditional sense.
It is highly unlikely, given the historical as well as anecdotal accounts of the events surrounding Christ's birth, that it occurred in December.

There is also little evidence that the early Christians made much of a celebration of it. When the Roman Empire became Christian, it had holidays to which its people were accustomed at that time of year. Among other holidays at that time, Saturnalia involved gifts and was one of the periods of good sales each year for Roman merchants.

[redrockcoulee]

There is no reason why it should matter, but it will always be brought up by the opponent, if not the candidate.

Here it is extremely rare for it to be mentioned by anyone. And yes some of your candidates do seem to try to tell everyone how more Christian they are then some one else.

[jsherman999]

Right, the plastering of religious holidays on or near the natives "pagan" rituals in order to confuse and indoctrinate the "masses'.. See Christianity is Republicanism...

Yesterday my little guy came home from preschool with a fridge magnet that depicted a group of pumpkins and one carved jack 'o lantern. The 'jack 'o lantern' had a big, obvious cross carved in it. It was the only carved pumpkin.

I found that very offensive, for some reason, and I'm not bothered in the least by "Christmas" concerts, or 'Merry Christmas' at school vs. 'happy holidays'. I'm certainly not anti-christian, but I feel like they're messing with a traditionally secular holiday. I understand what they're doing - trying to break any possible inferred link to a pagan past - but for pete's sake, it's a kids holiday about goblins and ghosts and candy, it's not anti-christian. Give your stupid, insecure little crusade a break and leave Halloween alone. It's secular. It's supposed to be scary/fun/crazy/mysterious.

We decided today to enroll him in another preschool next year.

.

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Last edited by jsherman999; 10-20-2011 at 08:13 PM.

[gokenin]

Actually Halloween was never really a secular holiday as with all things it has been converted into one. I am sure someone will mention the festival of Samhain the day is also All Hallow eve the vigil night for All Saints Day for us pesky Catholics. The Mexican night of the dead is also. Festival in preparation for All Saints Day as well. Just my two cents about it

[shooz]

How in the world did this go from a stage full of doofus pseudo-republicans to Halloween symbology?

Help the poor!
Place a Takumar in my bag please..............................

Now there's NEW tradition we can all get behind.

[Parallax]

How in the world did this go from a stage full of doofus pseudo-republicans to Halloween symbology?

Help the poor!
Place a Takumar in my bag please..............................

Now there's NEW tradition we can all get behind.

What do you mean "how (did it happen)?
Are you new around here?

[Nesster]

Here it is extremely rare for it to be mentioned by anyone. And yes some of your candidates do seem to try to tell everyone how more Christian they are then some one else.

If there are votes to be gained, or votes to be denied the opponent, it will be mentioned.

[GeneV]

Actually Halloween was never really a secular holiday as with all things it has been converted into one. I am sure someone will mention the festival of Samhain the day is also All Hallow eve the vigil night for All Saints Day for us pesky Catholics. The Mexican night of the dead is also. Festival in preparation for All Saints Day as well. Just my two cents about it

I'll volunteer. All of the major "Christian" holidays are set at the turn of the seasons. Samhain, Oct. 31-Nov.1, is the harvest festival and Celtic new year. Christmas was at the day of the winter solstice then adjusted a few days off to December 25 when the calendar changed. Easter is keyed to the moon and the Vernal Equinox. These were all secular days before Christianity plugged a holiday into them.

So many holidays are rather arbitrarily set, even more recent ones. Even July 4 is debatable. Jefferson completed his draft of the Declaration of Independence on June 28; Congress declared independence on July 2; the first signature went on the Declaration August 2, and signing continued through November. July 4 is really editing day--when others in Congress tweaked Jefferson's draft and said it was good.

[jsherman999]

Actually Halloween was never really a secular holiday as with all things it has been converted into one. I am sure someone will mention the festival of Samhain the day is also All Hallow eve the vigil night for All Saints Day for us pesky Catholics. The Mexican night of the dead is also. Festival in preparation for All Saints Day as well. Just my two cents about it

Of course I'm aware of this, but those ties are historical. Christmas, Hannukah, etc are active religious holidays - they are about their respective religions. Halloween was, up until around 10-15 years ago, celebrated the same way by everyone regardless of religion. It was effectively secular, it's ties to the pagan origins only an interesting piece of trivia, really.

In other words, kids weren't celebrating paganism, they were just trick + treating. It shouldn't have been co-opted. It wasn't a threat.

[cardinal43]

I don't watch either, but I can't help watching the highlights on the news. I think it's the same psychology that prevents people from looking away from a train wreck.

I have watched all of the debates, and they are better than Comedy Central. Never laughed so much in all my life. Best line of the night was Newt's comment about how difficult it will be for Cain to implement his plan.

[audiobomber]

Anderson Cooper did a piss poor job moderating the debate. He repeatedly and consistently allowed the candidates to weasel out of responding on topic. The immigration discussion was an excellent example. The question from the audience was about children in Texas without health care insurance. Perry completely ignored this touchy topic and launched into a tirade over illegal immigrants.

Bachmann ignored every question, but it hardly matters because in the end her answer is always the same, "Obama did it". And the audience cheers, never realizing that she's said absolutely nothing. Saying nothing is a lot safer for her political career than showing the world what's really going on in that flaky head.

I've never paid much attention to Rick Santorum, probably because he gets no press, which is odd, because he should be in contention with Bachmann for whack job of the decade.

Cain explained his simple 9-9-9 plan. Anyone who's taken economics 101 can see that a tax like this hits the lowest income levels hardest. He says it's not regressive, so either he's a liar or stupid. I'll go with liar. The Mexican fence took up a lot of the debate. Holy crap, these people are seriously debating building a fence across a continent!!!

I'm no fan of Romney or Gingrich, but man, they looked good in this crowd. There was enough crazy on the stage to keep SNL going for the next six months. It would be amusing to watch borderline nut cases and religious zealots hammer each other if it wasn't so scary. Not that the candidates are scary, what's scary is that they have the support of half the country.

[boriscleto]

I've never paid much attention to Rick Santorum, probably because he gets no press, which is odd, because he should be in contention with Bachmann for whack job of the decade.

That would be because Dan Savage turned Santorum into a joke for eternity.

[audiobomber]

That would be because Dan Savage turned Santorum into a joke for eternity.

I had never heard of this controversy. Now I wish I hadn't Googled it.

[Wheatfield]

Holy crap, these people are seriously debating building a fence across a continent!!!

Think Berlin Wall but chain link. And electrified rather than guard houses.