[Jasvox]

Yes he seems to be saying that. Apparently, if you're not as successful as Germany, then you're lazy. He's not even talking about members that 'cooked the books' to gain entry. He's talking about founding members. Spain is not Germany, it likely never will be, and it doesn't have to be, it still contributes. The European Union is never going to work without income redistribution. Poorer countries are not allowed to float their currency to maintain their standard of living. So it's basically, you be uncomfortable, so that I can be successful(the age old story). The Union is a bad setup for sovereign, self-interested, nations. The economically more successful nations are doing really well in the union, and they gain a lot from membership that we're not seeing; such as trade, access to cheap labor, etc. They need to pay for those benefits or just dissolve the whole thing.

I cant say I disagree with you about that. Before the EU, the EEC seemed a much better set up, not to mention left European countries the right to be themselves and culturally less homogenized then they seem today. Oh well, will be interesting to see what the next few years holds for everyone in Europe.

Jason

[GeneV]

Goldman Sachs was the orchestra leader on that one. Cooking the books and smelling like bacon, or in this case, Souvlaki.

Jason

True, Goldman Sachs lost Greece's nest egg, and then made money on derivatives pegged to the default.

This is pretty interesting and, in some cases, almost funny.

Greek debt crisis a Goldman Sachs economic coup?|Raw Replay

Greece sold itself. If I were Greek, I'd be ticked.

[jeffkrol]

True, Goldman Sachs lost Greece's nest egg, and then made money on derivatives pegged to the default.

This is pretty interesting and, in some cases, almost funny.

Greek debt crisis a Goldman Sachs economic coup?|Raw Replay

Greece sold itself. If I were Greek, I'd be ticked.

I love the comments.........

[Nesster]

A political problem within Germany is that they don't like to acknowledge how much their economic growth has depeneded on all those lazy, incapable-of-planning, over consuming countries. Which, it seems, is a common afliction amongst the haves when considering the have nots.

[Jasvox]

since the common currency, those northern countries have done quite well while those along the Mediterranean have collapsed. Looking back before countries like Greece, Italy and Spain threw out their identity, er....money and adopted the euro, they were doing quite well being in control of their own economies. Sure, they had less, but less debt too. Typical Greeks and Italians (and probably Spanish) are poorer now than before they adopted the euro. The Euro has has a disastrous effect on the day to day lives of the people in several nations and an exit seems to be the only option before becoming slaves to the IMF and living in what to equates as a work camp or reservation.

The writing is on the wall in Greece and most likely Greece will default and exit the euro-zone and catch the flack that comes with it. No matter what, Greece's effect on the euro-zone will pale in comparison to what the problems Italy will bring.

Latest news is the Greek PM has stepped down and a coalition government will be formed, headed by an interim PM until national elections in February. My only hope for the Greeks is they can nominate and elect a person and people who are NOT any of the boobs within the ministries and cabinet now. One thing I have learned from living here for several years is that those in power now and representing the parties here are absolutely the worst of the worst and Greece can do, and ought to do better than this when electing officials to guide them through these catastrophic times.

Jason

[GeneV]

I haven't studied Italy's issues, but Spain is in a different boat from Greece. Spain's problems are more similar to out own in the U.S.--too much of its economy depended on construction and real estate (16% of GDP), leading to a big bust when RE financing crashed.