[GeneV]

The countries you listed have a combined population of 25MM people and the cost of living in them would make NYC seem like a bargain.


Cost of Living in Stavanger, Norway. Prices in Stavanger.
Cost of Living in New York, NY, United States. Prices in New York, NY.

If a combo meal cost $17 at McDonalds and dinner for 2 at a sit down restaurant was $147, you would have a lot more Americans protesting than you do now.

Ethnically and religiously they are all very homogeneous societies. Has anyone scaled the Scandinavian model to a jurisdiction with a large heterogeneous population?

Did you go through the listing for the cities in Norway and find the most expensive one? The cost of many of those items in Olso as shown on the same site is close to half as much. Compare the wages, compare the healthcare expenses and so on or this is meaningless. Talking about McDonald's prices in other countries (where it is not a national staple) is also very misleading, and converting currencies adds more distortions.

The whole cost issue seems to have nothing to do with social equality anyway. I've lived in Germany and Austria, and I've spent quite a bit of time in France and Spain, and the costs didn't seem out of line for what you got and what you needed.

[redrockcoulee]

So let's see, in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, and Iceland there are laws that mandate marriages 'out' of demographic? So a gay person must marry a hetero, and vice versa, and a doctor's daughter a bum's son? They must have abolished all inheritance, and coupling within one's estate (yea, the 'estates' were very much alive there) is strictly illegal.

How else do these societies achieve greater social equality than the US?

People in those countries are free to marry whoever, and I'm sure there's a tendency of like with like. And, oh yes, they do produce Wealth Generating Job Creators too.

Not true, they are only allowed to marry some one willing to marry them:ugh:

[Ratmagiclady]

Not true, they are only allowed to marry some one willing to marry them:ugh:

Fair point: American conservatives tend to say, "Why, you're equally free to marry someone we tell you to.....and no one else... as much as anyone.'

[Ratmagiclady]

You can call me Jay, you can call me Ray.... or you can call me Yucatan, or YP or whatever...

It has always seemed to me that The Libertarian concept ignores the contributions of everyone in society that we take for granted.

Take our ideal "self-made man or woman." Were they really "self-made?"

Didn't they travel public streets to public education? Wasn't the power to their house possible because of governmental agencies and regulation that make all systems compatible? Wasn't the gasoline in their car derived from oil pumped from wells registered with the county for ownership of mineral rights?

Each little thing in our lives comes to us because of those around us and those before us. The "self-made person", it seems, chooses to discount all the contributors to all the things that enabled them to succeed. Is it narcissism? I'm not sure. But it isn't reality.

The best example of a libertarian state on earth today is Somalia. No thanks, folks. No thanks.

Yeah, they all think they're freakin Grizzly Adams in Armani and still want the system funnelled toward their copious gullets.

[redrockcoulee]

Mike

It is not really social equality you should be afraid of, it is gender equality! One gender for everyone

[jeffkrol]

The countries you listed have a combined population of 25MM people and the cost of living in them would make NYC seem like a bargain.


Cost of Living in Stavanger, Norway. Prices in Stavanger.
Cost of Living in New York, NY, United States. Prices in New York, NY.

If a combo meal cost $17 at McDonalds and dinner for 2 at a sit down restaurant was $147, you would have a lot more Americans protesting than you do now.

Ethnically and religiously they are all very homogeneous societies. Has anyone scaled the Scandinavian model to a jurisdiction with a large heterogeneous population?

but there is this catch.. Most "class financial inequality" is reduced doctors make as much as lawyers as much as plumbers and people pick jobs because they "like them" not just to make a butload of cash.......

AND if all health care ect was paid for $50 "happy meals" are NO problem............

Only alcohol is really expensive. Stavanger's a little far away maybe, but you can do beer runs to Sweden, it's cheaper there !

Food is comparable in price, but of better quality. Healthy eating is normal over there, rather than fashionable.
Clothes are comparable, but Norwegian fashion is different, there will be none of the names you're used to, apart from sportswear Nike, Adidas etc)
And there isn't really any 24 hour shopping, lots of places still close on a Sunday.

I'm only just exploring all this stuff now, but I gather you get some sort of tax free period, either in summer, or winter.
I don't believe taxes are particularly high.

Her sister's rent on her flat is pretty much what you'd pay for one in Scotland, as are utility bills.
Norwegian houses are much better insulated, so keep heat better.
You don't have gas, it's all electric.
(at least in the area near Oslo where they are)

Experience so far is that it's a lovely place, hopefully some of the Norwegian members might help you better with details, even my g/f hasn't lived there for a few years.

Well, I'm Norwegian, and I obviously live in Norway... I do not live in Stavanger, though.

From what I have heard, and know about Stavanger, Stavanger is a nice place to live, generally. (I do hate the dialect there, though... beklager på mitt dypeste til alle Stavanger folk som leser dette )

Norway, in general, is just amazing. I live in the city Hamar, which is in the county of Hedmark (1-2 hours of driving to Sweden; alcohol)
The salaries are just amazing, the country is expensive, yes, but trust me on that the salaries compensate on that. The taxes are high, but then again the salaries compensate on that. I know a computerengineer who has a salary of about 1,1 million Norwegian Kroner (About $200,000 USD in today's currency) And you can live very well with just a salary of 1/5 of that.

The health basis is very good, we are polite (at least I am)... and I think you would be stunned seeing the Fjords of Norway, and the landscape in general.

Norway is ranked as the best country to live in, the safest/most peaceful country to live in, and one of the richest countries in the world..... (and something else, I forget what...)

You shouldn't be worried about learning our language, as every immigrant I know, have learned Norwegian very quick. They have maybe lived in Norway for 3 years and you will barely notice if they aren't from here or not.

Cultures and religions are respected... racism/etc is illegal.

Facts:

High standard-of-living
Safest country to live in
Best country to live in
Very good health
And fantastic landscape

If you are wondering about something, you can always send me a private message, or reply here.

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/world/885034-living-stavanger-norway-rent-hou...#ixzz1cgwHa6iL


Read more: http://www.city-data.com/forum/world/885034-living-stavanger-norway-rent-hou...#ixzz1cgvyZ9ZW

[jeffkrol]

stavanger is great enough to live in.because of the oil industry

Read more: Living in Stavanger, Norway (rent, houses, crawl space) - City-Data Forum




HEY, seems they forgot the big chunk for premiums, co-pays and general medical expenses..............

US AVE. monthy salary.. being generous $3333/month
.......Stavanger.......................
Median Monthly Disposable Salary (After Tax) 4,069.20
AGAIN no ins. premiums taken out ect.................

Try to put lipstick on the US pig all you want Mikemike.................

---

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-03-2011 at 05:36 PM.

[mikemike]

Did you go through the listing for the cities in Norway and find the most expensive one?

No, I have a friend whose an expat in Stavanger right now, a lot of my friends who are engineers in the oil and gas industry are being sent overseas to places like Stavanger, Aberdeen, Sakhalin, and Singapore because the offshore permitting process for domestic drilling is still moving at a glacial pace. The one who is in Norway has had his salary temporarily more than quadrupled to equalize his disposable salary and make up for the difference in the cost of living between New Orleans and Stavanger. As far as the IRS is concerned, he is probably a 1%er right now.

[yucatanPentax]

I think I read that the line for being in the Top 1% of the income in the USA means an annual income over $380,000. The US also exempts approximately the first $100,000 earned from overseas salaries in most fields (inter-country tax agreements are complex and I'm no tax accountant!). So that means your friends would have to be earning around $480,000 to be in the Top 1% of taxed income in the USA.

If they are making that much money, they don't have any sympathy from me about the amount of taxes they have to pay. The top rate is only around 35%. And, as many people do not realize, that doesn't mean the entire amount is taxed at 35%, but only the top increment in pay.

The median household income in the USA is between $40,000 to $50,000 these days and it has been falling since 2007. The wonder is how people in most areas of the nation can get by on LESS than that --- 1/2 the country does so. Half.

[jeffkrol]

No, I have a friend whose an expat in Stavanger right now, a lot of my friends who are engineers in the oil and gas industry are being sent overseas to places like Stavanger, Aberdeen, Sakhalin, and Singapore because the offshore permitting process for domestic drilling is still moving at a glacial pace. The one who is in Norway has had his salary temporarily more than quadrupled to equalize his disposable salary and make up for the difference in the cost of living between New Orleans and Stavanger. As far as the IRS is concerned, he is probably a 1%er right now.

and that applies how? does he get his pay cut when he works in places like Ethiopia????

[GeneV]

No, I have a friend whose an expat in Stavanger right now, a lot of my friends who are engineers in the oil and gas industry are being sent overseas to places like Stavanger, Aberdeen, Sakhalin, and Singapore because the offshore permitting process for domestic drilling is still moving at a glacial pace. The one who is in Norway has had his salary temporarily more than quadrupled to equalize his disposable salary and make up for the difference in the cost of living between New Orleans and Stavanger. As far as the IRS is concerned, he is probably a 1%er right now.

If he is a 1% now, then he was doing pretty well before. One could argue that the difference in after tax wages won't be a significant, either, since those dollars don't buy much.

The same thing happened here when people went to Alaska to work in oil.

[mikemike]

If he is a 1% now, then he was doing pretty well before. One could argue that the difference in after tax wages won't be a significant, either, since those dollars don't buy much.
The same thing happened here when people went to Alaska to work in oil.

Yeah, he was anyone whose an engineer in the oil industry is doing pretty well. Starting salaries out of school are in the high 70s and quickly hit six figures after a few years.

and that applies how? does he get his pay cut when he works in places like Ethiopia????

They actually get there normal US salary plus hazard pay if they send them somewhere like Nigeria or Ghana and when they are there they are usually living in company camps so they have virtually no living expenses and nothing to spend there money on so when they come back they have a huge bank account for essentially giving up a few months or years of their life.

I think I read that the line for being in the Top 1% of the income in the USA means an annual income over $380,000.

It is somewhere around there, and I thought that it was just gross income not taxable income...

[jeffkrol]

Put the elderly on ice? - CNN.com
o/t for mikemike.........

[Nesster]

Just as a point of comparison, a few years ago, when I was much closer to the top 1%, living in a high tax / high cost area, subject to the AMT, and including all the state, property etc taxes plus insurance / medical out of pocket, I'm estimating ~40% of my gross income went. It may be a bit more or less, I don't have the documents at hand. Plus at the time I was also financing a child in college - another ~15% of my gross income.

My conclusion is that I would be better off in Norway - the outgo is similar but the cost/benefit ratio is better. Furthermore, I would also say that anyone making less than that would also be better off in Norway.

[GeneV]

To me, the entire question is directed at a straw man. Outside of a few Maoists who may hang on somewhere, there are few in the world who want "social equality" in the sense that everyone gets the same thing no matter what they do. I don't really understand from where this question comes.