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11-04-2011, 09:54 PM   #1
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Michigan Passes Anti-Bullying Law, except...

'License to Bully': Backlash From LBGT and Victim's Father Over Matt Epling Bill Passed in Michigan Senate - ABC News

11-05-2011, 04:11 AM   #2
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These laws are a disaster. Good intentioned, but a disaster nonetheless.
11-05-2011, 04:32 AM   #3
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The problem really is your First Amendment which pretty much gives anyone license to say anything, no matter what. It needs to be tempered with some sort of hate language clause, but that isn't likely to happen.
11-05-2011, 08:51 AM   #4
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This is what you get with a teabagger governor.

11-05-2011, 09:51 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The problem really is your First Amendment which pretty much gives anyone license to say anything, no matter what. It needs to be tempered with some sort of hate language clause, but that isn't likely to happen.
Schools already can 'temper' that when it comes to what's said or expressed in school, ...usually the conservatives use that *against* people they consider different or undesirable, (It's used to ban any LGBT-supportive or anti-bullying groups in too many places as it is) but the authority exists, ...this is just about giving certain homophobes special permission to bully and say it's in the name of their God. (Thus, not to mention, proselytize using threats of mistreatment,)

Does make me wonder what would happen if someone expressed religious convictions that bullying is wrong and a sign of weakness and poor character, and that all loving sexuality is sacred. Bet they wouldn't like *that.*
11-05-2011, 10:42 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
The problem really is your First Amendment which pretty much gives anyone license to say anything, no matter what.
This isn't true, at all. The first amendment only covers what speech the gov't will restrict. There are many other less formal restrictions to free speech.
11-05-2011, 08:51 PM   #7
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Y'know, *smiling daintily.*

They keep saying 'Bullying's good for you.' Toughen you up and stuff.

Even if they do that to girls. That they put in the hospital a lot. For being too smart, for start. (then tell you you can't be a coastie cause someone might 'coerce' you. Yeah. )


I could play some Johnny Cash, but... This is somehow just f'n delightful: (Actually has me in stitches whenever I hear. )

Kid Rock - American Bad Ass - YouTube

(later edit: I clipped the youtube link, cause the amusement wore off, some of those lyrics just aren't funny that long. )


*curtsey*

*properly*


Oh, so.




This one's for the Motown.... And Yooper, bois. Huzzah.


Cause, obviously, this is all for our own religious edification. Gods know I learned *all about* how to get ganged up on, put in the hospital over and over, then punished by multiple authorities and *then* at home if I ever fought back, (or didn't) then ganged up on more, lather, rinse, repeat...


Actually, I got *very* good at some of those lessons. (Irony of ironies, police were called when I took out too many *bullies* (Thanks be to the Morrigan) at once in full view of many. I dunno if they'd prayed beforehand, but they sure acted pious after.)

*spit.*

Ain't education wonderful?


Good evening, Michigan. Was there some matter you'd like to press?

I'll tell you one thing that got me among others through what we went through as kids was this: "I'm the last one you get to do this to." And I said that by my own blood, fresh spilled. At a young age. I do not take it back.


No. More. We're the big kids, now. Supposedly.


No more. Bright Maiden, Avenger. No. More.

(How's that for a 'religious exemption.' I got your religious exemption right here, sport. They want religion, I'll give you religion: (Maybe it gives Christians license to harass and do violence, but, hey, kids... they also just totally legalized hexing the *crap* out of bullies, consult your local priestess on what's a clean shoot, but there we are. Just think of what a boon to our national SAT scores *this* could be. )

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 11-09-2011 at 11:28 AM.
11-06-2011, 07:48 AM   #8
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'License to bully' bill passes Republican controlled senate

QuoteQuote:
Kevin Epling is no stranger to a broken heart. He lost his 14-year old son Matt to suicide in 2002 after he was bullied in school. Since that time he has lobbied and educated state legislators in the hopes of one day seeing Matt's Safe School Law passed. On Nov. 2 the senate passed Bill 137 by a vote of 26-11 with all Democrats voting against it. It was not the bill Kevin Epling had imagined. In fact it was worse than he could have ever feared, saying he was "ashamed" of the legislation that carries his dead son's name.

After a bi-partisan vote moved the bill out of committee, the Republican controlled Senate revised the legislation to include a "moral convictions" clause essentially giving students a license to bully. Under the Republican substitute to SB 412, a bully could continue to harass a student for any perceived bias and simply cite a "moral conviction" as a basis for doing so.
PrideSource - 'License to bully' bill passes Republican controlled senate

Conservatives get their cookies punishing people and they want to keep it that way.


11-06-2011, 08:46 AM   #9
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I've met people who believed segregation was a biblical command. I don't believe such people should have a right to free speech. People who hate invariably use their religion to do so. When speech is abusive it's not free. Just the costs are paid by the the person abused not the abuser. The whole idea that speech can be free ( without consequences) is one of the weaknesses of western thought. They should have free speech zones where people can go and listen ( if they so choose) and say what they want. When they leave that area, they should be liable for anything they say. But free speech shouldn't mean the right to inflict your views on others. Especially when what you say demeans the person or people you are addressing. No one cares what your antiquated, pre-chritian millenniums old prejudices are. Abuse is abuse. You would think that the fact that abusive speech inhibits others right to pursue happiness, which is not an amendment but part of the constitution, would make it clear to Americans what the order of business should be. No amendment can over turn the intent of the constitution. The constitution does not uphold abuse, on religious or any other grounds. America is run by myopic fanatics. The fact that you hold abusive religious beliefs, should be no excuse for the law. Demeaning a homosexual or anyone else for that matter, should be considered a hate crime, not an case for an exception. And if you honestly believe that your religion demands you speak out against homosexuals, or anyone else, you should go to jail for that belief. You can hold whatever belief you want, as long as you're willing to suffer the legal consequences. After all, a guy who steals your stuff and a guy who tries to tell you you are less than human.. both criminals in my book.

If there are social consequences, there should be legal consequences. You can't tell me trying to take someone's money is worse than trying to take their dignity.
11-06-2011, 01:17 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Abuse is abuse.
Except when it's not. Especially with kids, who sometimes have a very likely tendency to think everyone hates them, when the reality is so far from the truth, just because there are those that don't kiss their asses. Or those who will do or say anything just to get their way in a situation. I am not saying bullying does not exist, nor that it should be ignored, but none of these laws, in any form, will solve anything.
11-06-2011, 02:21 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Except when it's not. Especially with kids, who sometimes have a very likely tendency to think everyone hates them, when the reality is so far from the truth, just because there are those that don't kiss their asses. Or those who will do or say anything just to get their way in a situation. I am not saying bullying does not exist, nor that it should be ignored, but none of these laws, in any form, will solve anything.
Not when it's the Teabaggers including state-sponsored position for any given Christian to have special rights to do whatever they want to anyone they call queer (Or presumably any other kind of 'sinner,') and claim it's their 'religious freedom' to beat people they don't like, defame them, even hound and harass them to death...

How bout Tennessee, where they have laws that prohibit even mentioning gay people in non-negative ways... You think this isn't a problem? They needed a 'law about that, ' supposedly,

And yes, your complicity and denialism are part of how this really, actually happens.

Too damn much.

Bullies do this stuff cause they *think* they can get away with it. That includes the teachers and administrators that are by this allowed to target people they claim their religion doesn't like... (Which, by the way, totally *violates* our religious freedom: allowing *faculty* to preach their religious bigotry against some of the citizens that pay their paychecks, also happens to be a direct assault on the separation of church and state. )

It's time for the sheep to stop tolerating all this hatred and casual brutality. Never mind allowiing it in the governance of this supposedly not-fascist country.

Standing around blaming everyone in sight but the perpetrators of this bigotry and thuggery, including the victims, or denying it's happening, doesn't mean it's not. Or make this special permission to bully in any way acceptable.

Doesn't change the fact it could be *your* kids made into perpetrators of this... or victims of it. (Whether they're LGBT or not: after all, nothing says the 'accusations' even have to be true for someone to use that against kids for any number of other reasons. )


If it's 'not happening,' ...if all the people who've seen and experienced this are, what... crazy? ...why are the Teabaggers looking for special religious exemptions to *do* it?

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 11-06-2011 at 02:55 PM.
11-06-2011, 03:01 PM   #12
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Thinking that bulling does not happen is like believing that sexual harassment or discrimination do not either and that those who claim to be victims are some how either wimps or making it all up. Obviously never either been a victim or seen it happen or just do not care what happens to others. There are anti-bulling poliices in place in our schools. The reason to have these rules or laws is to let people know it is not allowed and there are consequences if they do bully. Not fool proof but then neither are laws against rape, murder or even littering. The laws give some protection to the victims in that the perpetrators can be charged or at the very least given a verbal warning by authorities. Doing nothing is the same as telling the bullies that it is alright to bully as much as they wish to and perhaps they are in the right to do so.
11-06-2011, 06:58 PM   #13
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Dramatize much guys? So passing bad laws for the sake of doing something is ok with you guys?
11-06-2011, 07:19 PM   #14
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The US has so many bad laws I din't think it was an issue.
11-06-2011, 08:05 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jodokast96 Quote
Dramatize much guys? So passing bad laws for the sake of doing something is ok with you guys?
It was a *good* law until the Republicans made it into such a bad one by making it say, "Bullying is bad, unless someone does it in the name of religion, even a teacher.*

There is actually some dramatic stuff about this problem you seem to both insist isn't happening and anti-bullying laws wouldn't or shouldn't prevent. The news just last week was just *full* of stories of people being brutalized or threatened, while the Right continues to spew its hatred and denialism,

Frankly, the mean-spiritedness and hate of the Right is something that affects a *lot* of people, (That Teabagger governor has shown himself to have a real hate-on for LGBT people,) but targeting children is just beyond the pale.

I mean, why do you *think* this makes so many people furious? Cause so many of us have been *through* it, ...*live* with those fears of it happening again, and it's hard enough to get an education *without* the Christian Right turning the schools into war-zones for anyone they care to target, ...never mind people combining church and state via all these hostile politicians and even school staff and officials to send messages that we *are* somehow lesser than the thugs... that they're *entitled* to do this to others, and that they'll look the other way or give the bullies they teach the hate to a pass.

That's not over-dramatizing, that's what it's like for *too many* kids, no matter how much you deny responsibility for it, enable it, support it, or claim it isn't happening at all.

I don't have that luxury. I've spent a lot of time in my life trying to help others it happens to, too, the battered, the outcast, ...I've seen some scars, psychological and very very physical, that make mine look pretty minor, actually. And of course there's those that didn't make it.

Sure didn't do *my* health or prospects any good.

Why is this so damn hard for you to believe? This bigotry does tremendous harm to people, society, families, and the economy, but it certain people seem to think it's 'holy' to try and perpetuate that harm (Actually in direct contradiction to the electoral claims that they *weren't* going to be pushing this right-wing social agenda that they denied up and down to a lot of the people they claimed a 'mandate' from. (While saying the opposite where the right wing could hear it.)

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 11-06-2011 at 08:43 PM.
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