[GeneV]

Joe, have a nice life. We discuss here for fun, and there is no point in a discussion where one person asks for links to information and when the links are furnished responds "I can post just as many links" rather than responding to the information.

BTW, I was a lawyer for a voter protection project and a designated poll watcher in 2004. I've held a provisional ballot in my hands and been present when they were judged. It contains the same voting choices as any other ballot, but before those choices are reached, there are questions which must be answered. If the provisional voter does not answer each of them in a way that precisely matches the rolls, the vote is not counted. It took most voters I observed about half an hour to complete the form as opposed to five minutes in the voting booth. That is probably why several of the Indiana nuns left without voting rather than attempt the provisional ballots.

Nationwide, about 1/3 to 1/4 of these ballots aren't counted, and in some states, such as Florida, a majority of provisional ballots in some elections were not counted. In the polling place I watched (mostly poor, mostly Dem), only about 20% of the provisional ballots counted. The form almost turns into a literacy test, prohibited as unconstitutional. Misspell your street name, or leave out your middle initial, and the GOP rep. would challenge the ballot. (Democrats were instructed by Kerry headquarters NOT to go do the same thing in GOP districts) Many believe that provisional ballot rejections in Ohio decided the 2004 election.

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Last edited by GeneV; 11-11-2011 at 10:32 AM.

[joe.penn]

Joe, have a nice life. We discuss here for fun

Gene, I'm having fun - seems that I have been the only one laughing in my responses (and I have, look at my emoticons ).

the links are furnished responds "I can post just as many links" rather than responding to the information

I responded to the information (well, the indiana one anyways) - that seemed like an extremely bad example as the article title specifically said that voters were not allowed to vote, then you read and see that it was totally false kind of makes you not even want to waste your time...





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[GeneV]

I responded to the information (well, the indiana one anyways) - that seemed like an extremely bad example as the article title specifically said that voters were not allowed to vote, then you read and see that it was totally false kind of makes you not even want to waste your time...
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The Indiana example may have seemed like a bad one to you only because you do not understand what is involved in casting a provisional ballot. It is in fact an excellent example. Some of the nuns were so put off by the process that they did not go through the provisional ballot process and just did not vote.

I have observed first hand how this is exactly what the GOP reps at the polling place want. They would also inject challenge after challenge so that voters would have to wait longer outside in line after a long day of work. Volunteers from the Voter Protection Project outside would encourage them to stay and help them communicate to their child care that they would be late. Voters also ended up struggling with provisional ballots because someone called and told them to go to the wrong polling place.

[Ratmagiclady]

Gene, I'm having fun - seems that I have been the only one laughing in my responses (and I have, look at my emoticons ).

Maybe that's your problem, rather than 'The Left.'

Maybe you're just laughing in your echo chamber, you know?


one thing cons and other bulies dont' get is, If you have to say, 'Hey, it was just a joke! You must have no sense of humor!'

It wasn't funny. Cause humor's not about blame. Ask me and the beagle I brought. "

I responded to the information (well, the indiana one anyways) - that seemed like an extremely bad example as the article title specifically said that voters were not allowed to vote, then you read and see that it was totally false kind of makes you not even want to waste your time...

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If mere illogic was 'humor,' the Right would be hilarious.


Unfortunately, you can't have humor *without* understanding at least two points of view, and that's why you only laugh at yourselves.


I'm not 'The left' you fear undercutting your claims to be funny when talking about imposing breeding rights on any female you please this way....


But neither is Gene. I tend to trust him to call me on stuff. Cause he's what used to be called... 'A regular dude of principle.' (Now, according to the GOP and Baggers, 'A Commie.' Oh, wait, that's nothing new, either, is it?)

Also, it's still not your f'n body, still not your f'n decision, and it *still* doesn't change reality. Or how hypocritical the cons are to claim, 'Small Government! Except in everyone else's intimate life and religion!'

[Wheatfield]

The Indiana example may have seemed like a bad one to you only because you do not understand what is involved in casting a provisional ballot. It is in fact an excellent example. Some of the nuns were so put off by the process that they did not go through the provisional ballot process and just did not vote.

I have observed first hand how this is exactly what the GOP reps at the polling place want. They would also inject challenge after challenge so that voters would have to wait longer outside in line after a long day of work. Volunteers from the Voter Protection Project outside would encourage them to stay and help them communicate to their child care that they would be late. Voters also ended up struggling with provisional ballots because someone called and told them to go to the wrong polling place.

The other bad example (actually, I don't know if it was in that batch of citations) was DMVs being closed in Dem districts to make it harder for people in those areas to get official IDs and the like.
The Republican controlled states can't officially disenfranchise the people who are likely to vote Democrat, but they seem to be doing everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for the people who are likely to vote against them to actually cast a ballot.

[Ratmagiclady]

The other bad example (actually, I don't know if it was in that batch of citations) was DMVs being closed in Dem districts to make it harder for people in those areas to get official IDs and the like.
The Republican controlled states can't officially disenfranchise the people who are likely to vote Democrat, but they seem to be doing everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for the people who are likely to vote against them to actually cast a ballot.

They do it everywhere. Fact is, apart from a few token instances where it *doesn't* matter, all those voting errors always favor Republicans, and where it *does* matter. Like, say, Florida. Or Ohio. Or Wisconsin. Funny, that.

[GeneV]

The other bad example (actually, I don't know if it was in that batch of citations) was DMVs being closed in Dem districts to make it harder for people in those areas to get official IDs and the like.
The Republican controlled states can't officially disenfranchise the people who are likely to vote Democrat, but they seem to be doing everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for the people who are likely to vote against them to actually cast a ballot.

The election in 2004 was the only election where I was active as a Dem (I had been active many years before as a Rep). I may never do it again. I felt very strongly about the wars, and gave as much as I could to candidates who pledged to end them, and volunteered for at least 100 hours in the election. I received training on techniques of voter suppression and how to deal with them. There was a network set up for reporting it. I, along with others, reported numerous irregularities ranging from suppression techniques to the fact that, according to the voting machines, 10% of the people who stood in line to vote did not vote for president. That is a striking undervote for this kind of precinct--which went 74% to Kerry.

The reason I probably won't get involved that way again is that with all the work we put in, the Kerry camp just said forget it and conceded. There was a magazine article that reported these problems, but the only "fraud" story here which got attention was the right wing yelling about an underage person that an ACORN student volunteer registered up the street as a joke. How did the election officials find this out? A supervisor at ACORN caught the problem, dismissed and banned the volunteer and flagged the bad registration for the officials. The failure to file a bogus criminal charge against the student was a reason why our U.S. Attorney, David Iglesias, was dismissed by President Bush.

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Last edited by GeneV; 11-12-2011 at 07:02 AM.

[Nesster]

Gene, I feel sorry for your experience -sorry for you, and sorry for the country. And a bit pissed at the idea that our politics has devolved into pro wrestling - the babyface dems vs heel reps... with predetermined outcomes.

And what I really wanted to say about this: all this vote suppression and machine rigging etc obviously is insignificant compared to that ACORN thing, and the two black guys outside a polling place in Philly.