[mikemike]

In Vermont, police said preliminary investigations show a 35-year-old military veteran fatally shot himself in the head Thursday at an Occupy Wall Street encampment. The name of the man is being withheld because not all of his family has been notified.

I thought tea baggers were the only ones who brought there guns out to protests.

[larryinlc]

I thought tea baggers were the only ones who brought there guns out to protests.

How do you know he wasn't one?

[jeffkrol]

In a video posted Wednesday, Shavies said police should be siding with the protestors. "I'm a police officer," he told interviewer Justin Warren. "I'm part of the 99 percent... it's more than financial, what they're talking about... it's bigger than just money. It's about inequality."

Condemning his fellow officers in the Oakland Police Department for their heavy-handed tactics, Shavies defended his role as an undercover cop in the movement as part of his job description. His role, he insisted, was to identify agitators, precisely so the Occupy movement can continue. His desire to set the record straight, and to show his support for the Occupy movement, prompted him to speak out.

"As a citizen of Oakland... for someone to say 'you are a tool of the Man,' it started to bother me," he said.

For Shavies, there is no division between being an officer and an Occupy supporter. "To me, it's not black and white," he said. "It's gray."

Occupy Oakland Cop Condemns Brutality, Calls OWS 'Our Birmingham' [VIDEO] - International Business Times


John Lucas, 52, part of an Occupy Oakland medic team, said a fistfight involving several men preceded the gunfire.

"Several people went after one guy, and the group got larger, and they beat him and he ran," Lucas said. "There were six or seven shots. Everyone starts running … and there was another shot
No suspects have been identified, said Jordan, who asked people participating in the protest who may have taken photographs or video that captured the shooting to contact authorities.

I find the lack of any current evidence "suspicious".....

[GeneV]

How do you know he wasn't one?

Especially given the reports of the right wingers who were handing out bongs, and trying to get OWS protesters to pose for photos with them.

[mikemike]

How do you know he wasn't one?

Suicide astroturfers, I bet that one set the Koch brothers back a pretty penny.

Yes, and we should all brush our teeth and floss regularly.

Isn't there some responsibility to be assumed if you contribute to someone's overdose. Didn't we see that just last week with Michael Jackson's Dr. Feelgood? Doesn't that come up in the context of alcohol poisoning every few years with college party's. The push for an equal society should mean that contributing to alcohol poisoning of a homeless person is as reprehensible as it is for a college student or a celebrity.

Sometimes it seems like I am the only one with a heart or who cares about people here.

[yucatanPentax]

Suicide astroturfers, I bet that one set the Koch brothers back a pretty penny.

Isn't there some responsibility to be assumed if you contribute to someone's overdose. Didn't we see that just last week with Michael Jackson's Dr. Feelgood? Doesn't that come up in the context of alcohol poisoning every few years with college party's. The push for an equal society should mean that contributing to alcohol poisoning of a homeless person is as reprehensible as it is for a college student or a celebrity.

Sometimes it seems like I am the only one with a heart or who cares about people here.

Do you have evidence that it was the OWS protesters who provided the alcohol? Simply because they allowed a homeless person to camp with or near them, they are now responsible for everything that person did? Jackson's doctor injected drugs. Did the OWS folks pour alcohol down his throat? Are protesters supposed to search every person to see what they have on them? Are they responsible for what other people, including other homeless alcoholics, leave at a memorial? Wouldn't the police be equally responsible? They too are nearby...

New rule of jurisprudence: Proximity to someone's death proves guilt?


With a heart? I suppose so. Only those with a heart would be making bets on people dying. I think, pretty much, all the world's religions and ethical mores hold that life is worthless and mainly exists for the amusement of others.

Certainly that's what they believed during Roman times, right? Thumbs down on the gladiator! I've got a bet to win!

[Ratmagiclady]

Do you have evidence that it was the OWS protesters who provided the alcohol?

Of course not, he just made that up.

New rule of jurisprudence: Proximity to someone's death proves guilt?

Pretty much: the corporate media seems to be trying to turn all the attention away from what the people are protesting about and attack the character of... Well, everyone involved.

A minister who was nearby at the Oakland shooting actually reported what he saw: the person who was shot was apparently just a bystander in an unrelated street shooting: the men had actually been asked to leave the area by security, come back, and managed to hit someone at the protest with a stray shot.

The Right seems to have decided their talking points will include notions like 'Occupy invented street shootings in Oakland' and 'Occupy is passing out drugs and alcohol, it's their fault there's homeless people and social problems.... ' and 'Occupy invented these epidemic veteran suicides,' etc etc.

When, actually, it's generally a very supportive and cooperative bunch of folks there, ....all this propaganda is for one, about justifying rolling the police all over the protests. As well as, of course, an excuse for the government not to listen to the people.

There's a lot of frustration and anger out there after, well, all this corporate frustration and stonewalling in government, the Right rolling back our civil rights and the things that *make* a functioning society, ...and of course dirty tricks have become pretty standard right-wing tactics: agents provocateur, little false-flag operations, etc.

It's kind of funny, though, how the point is missed that much of the protest is *about* how regular people have just been pushed so hard, and the 'conservatives' just aren't aware of how 'the other half' lives, ...Ironic how mikemike is indignant that the committees of OWS aren't providing like top-flight policing and social services, both of which the conservatives in government are demanding to cut back all over. ...the very things they want to *take away* from the people. A homeless person dies of alcohol or a veteran pushed into despair, and suddenly, mikemike is expecting an ad hoc tent encampment to be its own little 'nanny state,' though. Very odd.

[mikemike]

Ironic how mikemike is indignant that the committees of OWS aren't providing like top-flight policing and social services, both of which the conservatives in government are demanding to cut back all over. ...the very things they want to *take away* from the people. A homeless person dies of alcohol or a veteran pushed into despair, and suddenly, mikemike is expecting an ad hoc tent encampment to be its own little 'nanny state,' though. Very odd.

These encampments are supposed to be modeling the society they would like to see but they are failing to protect the poorest amongst them. No organization that interfaces with the homeless ever allows them to board with them and use drugs and alcohol simultaneously. Not all homeless people are addicts but there are a great many who are. If they are going to provide support for them, they need to watch out for drug and alcohol use.

RML, I know you have mentioned that you have spent periods of your life living on the streets. Are you at all surprised that we are now seeing ODs and rapes at occupy camps when they are practically running a homeless shelter with no rules against drugs, alcohol, or segregation of the sexes? Do you think they could do more to help these people instead of just enabling them to hurt themselves and others?

'Occupy is passing out drugs and alcohol, it's their fault there's homeless people and social problems.... '

They are passing out cigarettes at a rolling table setup by and paid for with monies from the OWS finance committee.

Do you have evidence that it was the OWS protesters who provided the alcohol? Simply because they allowed a homeless person to camp with or near them, they are now responsible for everything that person did?

I read another story about the NYC protest where they were talking about the health concerns and they talked about how they were passing bottles (he could be talking about water bottles but I am guessing he was talking more of the whiskey variety) around which would help transmit diseases. I did visit the local Occupy camp a little more than a week ago and while I was there someone who I knew who was down there participating asked if I wanted to go get high. They are very generous people willing to share what creature comforts they have but they might not understand the vulnerability of the homeless and addicted that if they fall off the wagon they quickly become a threat to themselves.

Only those with a heart would be making bets on people dying.

As someone else mentioned, with a community this size it was only a matter of time until someone died. If it makes you feel any better we have bets on what will be the first cause of death at a Tea Party protest too. FYI, I have heart attack in that pool. I didn't realize the size of the homeless contingent among the Occupy crowd until I went out there for myself, if I did I would have probably picked OD.

[GeneV]

These encampments are supposed to be modeling the society they would like to see...

After that sentence, nothing enlightening could possibly come. Yes, I am sure that the OWS protesters are looking for a world lived in tents camped on city streets with speeches given over human amplifiers, and on and on.