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11-11-2011, 11:22 AM   #1
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Remember Europe? It used to be important

Thought that title was funny..........anyways....
QuoteQuote:
As we watch in sorrow and amazement, the great European nations slowly fade into a distant memory, hung on their own petard, the euro. All those once-viable, once-powerful nations, melting, melting like the Wicked Witch of the West.

There is Greece:
And Italy:
And Spain.

A quote, variously attributed to Albert Einstein, Rita Mae Brown or Narcotics Anonymous, is apt here: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.” Every euro nation believes its salvation comes from reduced government spending combined with increased government taxes, in short, reduced deficits – in short, austerity.

That fact that a reduced deficit – austerity — never has saved an economy, cannot save an economy and always will lead to economic disaster, does not seem to trouble the economists who preach it again and again.

Austerity is ignorance. Austerity is poverty. Austerity is a depression. Austerity is misery for a nation’s citizens, their children and their grandchildren, far into the future. Austerity is a trip to third-world status, or worse. Austerity is bleeding a patient to cure his anemia.

Deficit reduction cannot save Europe. Even were deficits reduced to zero, the euro’s fundamental weakness would continue: Monetarily non-sovereign nations, being unable to create unlimited money, cannot survive long-term without money coming in from outside their borders. This is an absolute law in economics.

There is no magical, long-term solution. No amount of deficit reduction, no amount of austerity will save monetarily non-sovereign nations. Austerity is insanity and death.

And austerity is the goal of America’s Congress and President and the special committee to reduce the deficit.

Remember Europe?

Remember America?


11-11-2011, 01:13 PM   #2
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Apparently, the handbasket to hell is large enought to hold all the countries.....
11-11-2011, 01:45 PM   #3
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It is a little known fact that Communist Nazis infiltrated the Austrian School - they liked the wienerschitzels, and thought this was the best chance of saving both Communism and National Socialism: repeat "Austerity, Pain, Good for You" ("Aaah, bracing!") at every turn, thus attracting the crypto-sadist ruling classes (with their need-hate relationship to the voting proletariats) to be their unwitting mules.
11-11-2011, 01:58 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
It is a little known fact that Communist Nazis infiltrated the Austrian School...
I'm not sure if calling out Godwin's Law applies here not knowing the nuances of the Nazi regime.


Last edited by tuco; 11-11-2011 at 02:13 PM.
11-11-2011, 02:05 PM   #5
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Well, this then was a record application of Godwin's Law
11-11-2011, 06:39 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
I'm not sure if calling out Godwin's Law applies here not knowing the nuances of the Nazi regime.

Godwin's Law only applies to calling people Nazis, not about describing the MO of *actual* Nazis and .... Well... I won't be taking any relocation showers even if the neighborhood gets odd.
11-11-2011, 07:42 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ratmagiclady Quote
Godwin's Law only applies to calling people Nazis, not about describing the MO of *actual* Nazis...
Yes, and I read more than name calling in the description too. The probability of going to 100% also factors in criticism based on the belief held by...

11-12-2011, 12:29 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by tuco Quote
Yes, and I read more than name calling in the description too. The probability of going to 100% also factors in criticism based on the belief held by...


Wow. I've been watching the news too much. They said "*Communist* Nazis," wow. And I totally glazed over it. That's like a double-reverse Godwin.

Cause it's that much yammering.

Can we get over Marx, yet? Please? Never mind what's his face with the comb over and the Charlie Chaplain stache? (You know, the dude with the Religious Right agenda?) This is supposedly the 21st century.

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 11-12-2011 at 12:36 AM.
11-12-2011, 04:19 AM   #9
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WW1 and WW2 pretty much destroyed Europe for the entire first half of the 20th century and its effects were felt throughout the second half. Now we are in the 21st century and what seems to be destroying Europe is this experiment known as the common currency. There is even a wet dream in some circles to create a "United States of Europe". It seems so powerful and secure on paper. Europe is made up of dozens of countries and dozens of unique customs, beliefs, ideas and cultural nuances. If you try to throw a fence a round that and ask everyone to behave now as a singular unit, you will wipe out what makes those individual countries unique (destroy their identities) along with fail to have all of these countries living together under one happy flag, currency and overseeing government. The countries which makeup "Europe" are completely different then the states that make up the USA. Our states have (more or less) always been under the union of the "United States of America" and have been moving (more or less) in a common direction. Asking the countries which make up "Europe" to drop everything and do it all the Brussels way is a guaranteed fail.

For the past year or so the news about Greece, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, Italy....etc have been dominating the headlines regarding their economies and now every time you turn around you see articles suggesting Greece bow out of the EU in order to "save" the EU and themselves and now we are beginning to see those headlines with the suggesting Italy do the same, next Spain, Portugal, etc. Now we are hearing rumblings of France, Germany and the UK creating a sub group within the EU for strong economic member states only. A club of strong economies, if you will. Why bother, why not dissolve the entire EU and common currency and just go back to what it was like up until 2000/2001 when the Euro became the ties that bound these member states together. It clearly is not working. Not for the countries which it destroyed economically, nor for the countries which benefited (at least for a while...and there was great benefit too.) Back to the Drachma, the Lira, the Franc, the Guilder, the Deutschmark, the Punt, etc, etc. Let these countries become self sufficient and if one or two go down, they dont take down a chunk of the "world economy" with them. Local currency is a wonderful thing. Not only for ones national identity, but also creates a worth for goods and services based on what that country can handle and sustain upon. I was having a conversation a few days ago when reminiscing about being in Berlin during the November 1989 uprising and Wall razing. What a glorious time to be there. During the conversation, a few of us remarked about how it would be fun to go back in time and travel through Europe again when things were as they used to be before the Euro. Remembering the rich and distinct differences when crossing a boarder from one country to the next and the little headache which currency exchanging. Sure a little headache, but one I would surely welcome if this Euro just went away. Of well, it is nice to dream.

Jason
11-12-2011, 07:18 AM   #10
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Interesting take, Jason. I also remember border checks, and I'm not sorry to see those gone.

One problem I see with the Euro is that it was not coupled with something more like a United States of Europe. (It is a bit like the mess we are making here trying to create universal health care without a government insurance plan). I don't think people in some of the countries understood just how much of their sovereignty they were giving up. You can't have a common currency without a lot of commonality. Greece and Italy have always gone their own way, and I wondered from the outset how that could work.

I think Spain's issues are different. They have, to a large extent, just been pulled down the same hole as the U.S., and I don't think anyone should make a rash decision there. OTOH, as a wine lover, I'd love to start buying Spain's stellar bottles in pesetas again.
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