[GeneV]

Simply agree that posting Obama gaffes is no more or less pointless than posting any conservative gaffe.
This is an example of the double standard and subtly coercive liberal agenda which is so pervasive around here.

It is not a double standard to treat different kinds of gaffes differently any more than it is a double standard to treat drunk driving and driving 5 mph over the limit differently. Misspeaking a word is not the same as not knowing a fact, and multiple statements of nonsense, ignorance and/or misinformation in a relatively short period of time say something different.

[Jodokast96]

Misspeaking a word is not the same as not knowing a fact, and multiple statements of nonsense, ignorance and/or misinformation in a relatively short period of time say something different.

Unless you're GWB. At least try to be consistent.

[GeneV]

Unless you're GWB. At least try to be consistent.

Again, comparing drunk driving with speeding by 5mph. A few miscues now and then would be nothing to worry about, but our most recent former President had volumes. Many of the most serious ones are, like the current candidates, not grammatical misspeaks but false statements or indications of misunderstandings or of being poorly informed. Bush Quotes - Top 50 Dumb Bush Quotes of All Time

Some are actually true:

"This is an impressive crowd -- the haves and the have mores. Some people call you the elite -- I call you my base." --at the 2000 Al Smith dinner

[riff]

Some are actually true:

"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
"Too many good docs are getting out of the business. Too many OB-GYNs aren't able to practice their love with women all across this country."
"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
A
N
D
"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office."

Thanks GeneV.. Dunno if I should laugh or cry.

[Nesster]

Fun Fun Fun. But let's let the other side have their 2 Obama items + Biden, after all everyone deserves to have some fun.

[les3547]

Most of the conservatives around here have gotten banned or walked away over the past few years and trying to approach a discussion from a conservative point of view is " a tough row to hoe". You may find however that there are still a few members here that might be your allies. Actually a few of the libs have enough common sense to see through some of the issues too but they hate to admit it.

I don't think conservatism is what's being criticized most often in these threads; rather it is the disproportionate number of politicians who've joined the Republican party in order to use it and the "conservative" label to further greedy and selfish ends. To me conservative is a good idea when applied correctly, liberal is a bad idea when applied incorrectly . . . and visa versa.

My liberal and conservative sides make me want all people helped on their feet so they can become contributing members of society, but I want that achieved through programs/policies that we have a way to pay for.

I also know just throwing money at things isn't the answer, but neither is abandoning things altogether. For example, some point out how much our public education system costs, and then suggest we stop funding it. The answer isn't to cutback, but to find out how to do it right. Look at Singapore or Finland where they have tremendous success with major investments they make in public education. The students graduated there join the work force in every way better equipped to out-compete the US in an ever-growing world market economy. We are something like 26th in education compared to the world and dropping fast; meanwhile we spend six times as much on prisons and law enforcement as we do education. Don't you think there's a correlation?

Another example is the Republican answer to the debt crisis. If a business is successful making medium sized widgets, and then overnight the demand changes to miniature widgets, a business can only survive if it invests in retooling and reeducating its workers. Businesses very often borrow for that retooling/reeducation process. If instead of investing in changing they decide to pay off all their debts, they will fail because no debt doesn't leave them in a position to conduct business.

Too many politicians populating the Republican party want to continue to let the poor go downhill, strip money from education with every new budget, want to bully the rest of the world into doing things America's way, would love to re-deregulate Wall Street and clean air laws, and are just fine with the ever-growing gap between rich and poor. I don't think those are "conservative" values, it's merely greed and selfishness wrapped in political ideology. The so-called "debt crises" is the perfect example of this where they use US debt as a pretense to cut any sort of money to be spent on helping the poor get on their feet, but God forbid ask the rich to chip in. The height of this hypocrisy is that a great proportion of the debt and our financial woes are due to the Republican-led Iraq war (a war-mongering disgrace), and Wall Street-banking swindles due to deregulation inspired by Republican trickle-down beliefs. Yet now they pretend it is Obama's inability for an instant fix that's the problem, and not only admit nothing, but also want to return to the kind of policies that got us in this mess.

Evidence for my hypothesis is seen in the current Republican candidates. The most honest, capable and experienced of the bunch is Huntsman, the rest are either dishonest or inept or both. And where do we find Huntsman in the polls? At the bottom because the Republican party has been taken over by ignorance and greed.

IMHO, we need both conservative and liberal thinkers in congress for a good counterbalancing effect, so Intelligent, honest conservatives and liberals alike should decry what the Republican party has become (at least in Washington).

[GeneV]

Most of the conservatives around here have gotten banned or walked away over the past few years and trying to approach a discussion from a conservative point of view is " a tough row to hoe".

Ken, I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense, unless you are saying that posting empty personal insults is approaching a discussion from a "conservative point of view." One liberal poster was banned for the same thing and some others did some time in the penalty box. This place was on its way to becoming an internet cesspool, with the posters who walked away or were banned calling each other or the other "side" names, rather than exchanging ideas. This entire section was a hair's breadth from being closed down when people started to clean up their act.

I totally welcome a reasoned debate. It gets dull quickly otherwise. However, if you are cheering the old days, you are wishing this forum away.

---

Last edited by GeneV; 11-17-2011 at 03:11 PM.

[stevewig]

Ken, I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense, unless you are saying that posting empty personal insults is approaching a discussion from a "conservative point of view." One liberal poster was banned for the same thing and some others did some time in the penalty box. This place had become an internet cesspool, with the posters who walked away or were banned calling each other or the other "side" names, rather than exchanging ideas. This entire section was a hair's breadth from being closed down when people started to clean up their act.

I totally welcome a reasoned debate. It gets dull quickly otherwise. However, if you are cheering the old days, you are wishing this forum away.

I have alluded to the same thing a couple of times myself but, Gene, I support what you say here 100%.

If you can't beat somebody's logical argument other than by offering personal insults or invective you deserve to be banned. If you like the personal invective style of discussion there are many such forums out there and I would say, in fact, most of them.

I prefer this forum and not just because the balance, at the moment, is in favor of the left.

A good argument or view point trumps majority viewpoint every time!

[GDRoth]

"reality is a well known liberal bias"

[seacapt]

"reality is , a well known liberal bias exists on this forum"

Fixed that for ya

[riff]

Fixed that for ya

Yeah but GD's quote was a complete sentence.

[Wheatfield]

Yeah but GD's quote was a complete sentence.

Conservatives can only cope with partial sentences and incomplete thoughts.

[seacapt]

Ken, I'm sorry but that is utter nonsense, unless you are saying that posting empty personal insults is approaching a discussion from a "conservative point of view." One liberal poster was banned for the same thing and some others did some time in the penalty box. This place was on its way to becoming an internet cesspool, with the posters who walked away or were banned calling each other or the other "side" names, rather than exchanging ideas. This entire section was a hair's breadth from being closed down when people started to clean up their act.

I totally welcome a reasoned debate. It gets dull quickly otherwise. However, if you are cheering the old days, you are wishing this forum away.

Gene , I was going to leave this alone but I just can't.
First off can you ever honestly remember me personally insulting another member?
There was a bit of a lunatic fringe back in the day but there were also a bunch of well spoken bright individuals who either got reported for nonsense or just got tired of trying to get an intelligent word in edgewise and walked away.
Think about it , what happened to Blue or Gokenin or that old Greek guy whose screen name I forget?
We used to discuss everything from controversial calls in sports to invasive species in the Everglades to the price of coffee in Tiara Del Fuego. There was alot more diversity here once upon a time. This forum has become a mainly one sided spam fest. If you don't believe me just count the [ insert Republican here] is dead meat threads. Why do you suppose 85% of the links posted come from the KOS or Huffinton or Salon?
Say what you will my friend but the fact is there is a double standard and a liberal bias here today.

[GDRoth]

We'll try harder to ignore factual data...............life's easier that way..........

[Wheatfield]

Say what you will my friend but the fact is there is a double standard and a liberal bias here today.

Perhaps there are more liberals now because the extreme right hasn't given sane people anything. If you want to discuss the merits of what the Republican front people are saying, please find some merit in what they say.