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11-21-2011, 06:59 AM   #1
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No Surprise from Debt Super Commitee only Failure?

The congressional “supercommittee” stumbled its way toward failure Sunday, with final staff-level discussions focusing mostly on how the panel should publicly admit that lawmakers could not meet their mandate of shaving $1.2 trillion from the federal debt.

Rather than making a final effort at compromise, members of the special deficit-reduction committee spent their final hours casting blame and pointing fingers, bracing for the reaction from financial markets that are already jittery over the European debt crisis.

Debt supercommittee members brace for failure - The Washington Post

11-21-2011, 07:04 AM   #2
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The problem is, they fail, the automatic cuts are now on the way to implementation... and congress starts to mess with these. They muster the votes to restore defence but allow all social programs to be gutted. And that, folks, is not a failure from certain pov's.
11-21-2011, 07:34 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
The problem is, they fail, the automatic cuts are now on the way to implementation... and congress starts to mess with these. They muster the votes to restore defence but allow all social programs to be gutted. And that, folks, is not a failure from certain pov's.
OF CURSE that would most likely end the reign of terror in Congress...... by people voting (hopefully).

They were carried in by old white men.. they will be carried out by ALL "men"........

Oh, BTW.... no surprise in it's "failure" it was inevitable.....


QuoteQuote:
Still, the supercommittee’s impending failure will not be without its casualties.

House freshmen: Whether this debacle was their fault or not, the new, largely Republicans class elected in 2010 has come to represent the congressional logjam and they are suffering for it. They are already running into fundraising trouble and House Democrats outraised their GOP counterparts nearly two-to-one last month. Passing a bipartisan deal that satisfied the markets and reduced the deficit could’ve done wonders to reform their obstructionist image. Alas, it was not to be. So, while running for reelection having raised taxes would’ve been hard, this group is doubly screwed as they also bear the blunt of the blame for the sorry state of affairs.
http://swampland.time.com/2011/11/21/with-the-supercommittee-poised-for-fail...#ixzz1eLuKOMoU


as to the next paragraph from the above story.. "deficits don't matter"......

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-21-2011 at 08:03 AM.
11-21-2011, 07:52 AM   #4
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...yes, that may be a silver lining...

11-21-2011, 09:37 AM   #5
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Well, I was disturbed by the idea that a select few were going to make a decision that would affect the financial future of the nation. This is probably a good thing although it will have short term effects on the financial markets that aren't too good.
11-21-2011, 09:45 AM   #6
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Apparently Grover Norquist presence very much present, as Republicans excused themselves as to why they could not break their pledge.
Seems to me like Grover has enormous power for somebody who is not accountable to the electorate?
11-21-2011, 10:50 AM   #7
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Here's an article that makes a good point: the committee could have at least worked to educate the public about the issues... but we know that would not happen when there are very much vested interests in keeping the misinformation alive.

Why Didn?t Obama Explain the Deficit Disaster?

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It is commonly believed that half of all government spending is wasted. A September Gallup poll found that Americans believe the government wastes 51 cents out of each $1 spent. This view is surprisingly consistent across ideological and political party lines. It’s also consistent worldwide. According to a 2010 BBC poll, people everywhere think that their governments waste an average of 52 percent of spending.

Obviously, if one believes that half of government spending is wasted then balancing the budget is a piece of cake. Just cut the waste and everyone will be able to continue enjoying the same government benefits they currently receive without paying more taxes and only the undeserving will suffer.

Of course, one person’s waste is another person’s essential government program. When asked, it turns out that people believe the bulk of government spending is, in fact, essential. Indeed, they often say that spending should be increased for particular programs.


In February, Pew asked people whether spending should be increased or decreased for various programs. People favored increasing spending over decreasing spending by the following margins (percentages): education (62/11), veterans’ benefits (51/6), health care (41/24), Medicare (40/12), crime fighting (39/18), energy (36/23), scientific research (36/23), environmental protection (36/26), anti-terrorism (33/21), agriculture (32/23), military defense (31/30), unemployment assistance (27/28), and global poverty assistance (21/45).

An April Economist/YouGov poll found similar results. Here are the increase/decrease ratios (percentages): education (42/20), veterans’ benefits (33/6), Social Security (29/12), health research (29/18), science and technology (28/19), Medicare (26/16), highways (26/15), mass transit (25/30), the environment (24/33), aid to the poor (22/25), Medicaid (22/23), national defense (16/36), unemployment benefits (15/27), housing (14/38), agriculture (12/38), and foreign aid (4/73).

Keep in mind that those that favor neither increasing spending nor reducing spending favor keeping it where it is. Consequently, there is just one program that people really favor cutting and that is foreign aid.

Most experts believe that foreign aid is a critical tool of American foreign policy. If we could no longer use the promise of aid or the threat of cutting aid to exercise influence over other countries we might have no alternative except to use military force, which is far more costly just in terms of dollars, not to mention human lives.

A bigger problem is that people grossly overestimate the amount of federal spending going to foreign aid. A 2010 World Public Opinion poll found that people think 27 percent of the federal budget is devoted to foreign aid. The true figure is about one half of one percent. Zeroing out the entire international affairs budget, including that of the State Department, would only save $46 billion in a budget of $3.6 trillion.

The problem of budgetary ignorance is evident in other ways as well. In 2010, Pew asked people which of these programs spend the most money: national defense, education, Medicare, or interest on the debt. Only 29 percent of people correctly said it was national defense. Interest on the debt was ranked highest by 23 percent of people even though its cost is less than one-third of what is spent on defense. Medicare was named highest by 15 percent of people, but its cost is just two-thirds of the defense budget. Education spending constitutes a little over one percent of federal spending.

In 2011, Pew asked a similar question about which of these programs is biggest: Medicare, education, scientific research, or interest on the debt. Only 29 percent of people correctly guessed Medicare, with 36 percent saying it is interest on the debt, which is less than half of what Medicare spends. Spending for scientific research and education is trivial by comparison

Given these misperceptions, it’s not surprising that people consistently oppose cutting popular programs like Social Security and Medicare or raising taxes to deal with the deficit. They don’t think it’s necessary. Just cut foreign aid, many apparently believe.

What is critically necessary if we are to solve our budget problem is for people to get the correct information about the composition of government spending. Since it is rare for anyone in politics or the media to ever tell them, average people can be forgiven for not knowing basic facts. Unfortunately, their ignorance allows demagogues to lead them down the primrose path of costless and painless cures for deficits.

Twenty years ago, billionaire Ross Perot captivated the country with charts and graphs showing the true nature of our budget problem and he received a substantial number of votes for president in 1992 and 1996. Why no one is doing the same today is a mystery. I even had to Google Perot’s name just to see if he is still alive. (He is.)
Unfortunately, the media believe that facts are boring and people just want opinions—the more strongly held the better because that makes for better television. And politicians are by nature purveyors of lies and mischaracterizations. But at some point, people need to know the truth.

Sadly, the super committee missed an opportunity to use its mandate to help educate the American people, spending most of its time behind closed doors search for a painless cure for deficit spending that won’t increase anyone’s taxes or cut anyone’s benefits. But the real failure of leadership is President Obama’s. He alone has the power to get the nation’s attention and give them the facts the way Perot once did. But Obama has never done it and now it may be too late to avoid a budgetary train wreck when the super committee inevitably fails in its mission.


11-21-2011, 11:21 AM   #8
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Steve Kroft To Grover Norquist: 'You've Got Them By The Short Hairs!' | Crooks and Liars

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CBS' Steve Kroft interviewed Grover Norquist as though he were King of the country, deserving of deference and awe for his hostage-taking and holding.
Daily Kos: Who IS Grover Norquist and Who Put Him in Charge of MY Life

Daily Kos: Grover Norquist Exposed

Norquist believes that the government should be the size it was in 1900. Does he also believe that the military should be the size it was in 1900? And that we should divest ourselves of the overseas bases we have established since the Spanish-American War? What does that do to the "War on Terrah" and the "War on Drugs"?

Last edited by boriscleto; 11-21-2011 at 11:31 AM.
11-21-2011, 02:56 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Norquist believes that the government should be the size it was in 1900. Does he also believe that the military should be the size it was in 1900? And that we should divest ourselves of the overseas bases we have established since the Spanish-American War? What does that do to the "War on Terrah" and the "War on Drugs"?
You know, I'm seriously scared of the idea that Grover really is smart and sees the fallacies of his politics... but he really doesn't care, he doesn't actually expect most of it to happen, nor would he really want most of it to (actually) happen. A nice big chunk, sure, but...

See, this is a marketing strategy, a brand name, a way to influence primary elections and therefore gain and retain power. There are good ego reasons right there, but there's also a ton of money to be made, by him and his industry - Conservative public opinion moulding - and as long as there's Big Government he's got that big paycheck. As long as he can throw money into the republican primaries to 'punish' bad thinking, he's got what he needs.

The less functions in Washington, the better off these brand marketeers are. We might say, in the same way that with controversial business issues the US Chamber of Commerce gets its paychecks. Or, while a disease is still a problem, the fundraisers to eradicate it make a living. We know the CoC can at times prolong a controversy in order to milk it some more... and we hope the disease people are in fact sincere about it, and hope to be out of a job as soon as possible...

And then, the thought occurs, maybe he really does think it is feasible - somehow - to roll things back to 1900. That may be scarier.
11-21-2011, 03:43 PM   #10
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Surprised?


No.

Impressed?


Not that either.
11-21-2011, 04:12 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nesster Quote
And then, the thought occurs, maybe he really does think it is feasible - somehow - to roll things back to 1900. That may be scarier.
Remember the crazy general and "precious bodily fluids" .. That's Grover.......

QuoteQuote:
General Jack D. Ripper: He said war was too important to be left to the generals. When he said that, 50 years ago, he might have been right. But today, war is too important to be left to politicians. They have neither the time, the training, nor the inclination for strategic thought. I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Last edited by jeffkrol; 11-21-2011 at 06:51 PM.
11-21-2011, 04:38 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Remeber the crazy general and "precious bodily fluids" .. That's Grover.......
But General Ripper came up with his theory during the physical act of love. Do you really think Grover has ever gotten that far? With someone of either sex? Sheep don't count.
11-21-2011, 06:06 PM   #13
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Hey now, that's enough mocking the Scots.
11-21-2011, 07:34 PM   #14
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"That's the big news out of the process: Republicans put the only new proposal on the table," Kyl said on Fox.

He also noted that noted anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist came out against Republican Sen. Pat Toomey's (Pa.) proposal. An analysis in the Times, however, said that the Toomey plan would have ultimately lowered tax burdens for the wealthiest Americans, and potentially raised taxes on the poor and middle class. Kyl disputed that characterization.

"They did not actually have a final written version," Kyl said on CNBC.

"They did not actually have a final written version,"
Bwahahahahahahahaha.................tool

Kyl: Dems rejected 'breakthrough' offer - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
11-21-2011, 07:52 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Hey now, that's enough mocking the Scots.
It could be worse. We could be Welsh.
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