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12-01-2011, 06:56 AM   #1
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Are US Christians more "Un-American" than US Muslims?

Why Many Evangelical Christians Are More "Un-American" Than US Muslims | Belief | AlterNet

Who is more "unassimlated"?

Muslims are the most loyal American religious group, new poll says - Yahoo! News

QuoteQuote:
American Christians are more likely than their Western European counterparts to think of themselves first in terms of their religion rather than their nationality; 46 percent of Christians in the U.S. see themselves primarily as Christians and the same number consider themselves Americans first. In contrast, majorities of Christians in France (90 percent), Germany (70 percent), Britain (63 percent) and Spain (53 percent) identify primarily with their nationality rather than their religion. Among Christians in the U.S., white evangelicals are especially inclined to identify first with their faith; 70 percent in this group see themselves first as Christians rather than as Americans, while 22 percent say they are primarily American.


12-01-2011, 07:28 AM   #2
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The poll does not take into account the pressure to answer it in a politically safe way. Most christian American citizens would not feel any significant threat or peril from saying they are christian first and American second, while many, if not most, muslim citizens likely feel a great deal of pressure to affirm their loyalty to America even on an "anonymous" survey.

I bet you would have seen a similar result if you had surveyed American's of Japanese heritage during WWII.

Mike
12-01-2011, 07:43 AM   #3
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Define "American" and "Un-American". Only then can you answer the question with any reference.

Jason
12-01-2011, 08:02 AM   #4
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Yes......... Americans are ,from my experience, generally more "un-american" (complain more, try to beat the system more, and generally a lot more apathetic and probably vote less) than foreigners since they are still happy to be away from where they were..

Pretty much always the way it was from Ellis island on.......
and considering the right/Tea/Christian party is trying to conscript the US gov. to be a right/tea/christian country.. no matter how you look at it they are err. un-american.. understanding the fact they think america is WRONG currently.. and would be more than happy to gut it, put prayer in public schools, allow nothing but charity to "help" people and throw out all people not of their belief... (we want the US to be a Christian Nation.. as un-american as you can get)
yes, un-american.......... In their defense they don't realize how un-american they are.......

12-01-2011, 08:34 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Yes......... Americans are ,from my experience, generally more "un-american" (complain more, try to beat the system more, and generally a lot more apathetic and probably vote less) than foreigners since they are still happy to be away from where they were..

Pretty much always the way it was from Ellis island on.......
and considering the right/Tea/Christian party is trying to conscript the US gov. to be a right/tea/christian country.. no matter how you look at it they are err. un-american.. understanding the fact they think america is WRONG currently.. and would be more than happy to gut it, put prayer in public schools, allow nothing but charity to "help" people and throw out all people not of their belief... (we want the US to be a Christian Nation.. as un-american as you can get)
yes, un-american.......... In their defense they don't realize how un-american they are.......
This is why I don't post in the Political Discussion threads often. The utter lack of respect for others and their beliefs displayed here is hippocritical. For being "tolerant", little tolerance is shown. For being educated, little direct knowledge is displayed. Pentax Forums shouldn't have a political / religious forum. I'm here to learn about cameras, not see intolerant threads every time I click "See New Posts."
12-01-2011, 08:44 AM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScreamingIdiot Quote
I'm here to learn about cameras, not see intolerant threads every time I click "See New Posts."
Go to USER CONTROL PANEL > EDIT OPTIONS > Forums To Exclude From View
12-01-2011, 08:56 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Define "American" and "Un-American". Only then can you answer the question with any reference.

Jason
............

QuoteQuote:
If, as Islamophobes argue, refusing to assimilate is defined as expressing loyalty to a religion before loyalty to country, then this data suggests it is evangelical Christians who are very resistant to assimilation. And yet, few would cite these findings to argue that Christians pose a serious threat to America’s national security.
QuoteQuote:
Because Christianity is seen as the dominant culture in America — indeed, Christianity and America are often portrayed as being nearly synonymous, meaning expressing loyalty to the former is seen as the equivalent to expressing loyalty to the latter.
QuoteQuote:
Of course, a genuinely pluralistic America is one where — regardless of the religion in question — we see no conflict between loyalties to a religion and loyalties to country. In this ideal America, those who identify as Muslims first are no more or less “un-American” than Christians who do the same (personally, this is the way I see things).
12-01-2011, 09:23 AM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScreamingIdiot Quote
This is why I don't post in the Political Discussion threads often. The utter lack of respect for others and their beliefs displayed here is hippocritical. For being "tolerant", little tolerance is shown. For being educated, little direct knowledge is displayed. Pentax Forums shouldn't have a political / religious forum. I'm here to learn about cameras, not see intolerant threads every time I click "See New Posts."
Sir,
You are similar to the person who is against pornography, complains that there is too much pornography in it, but carries on reading it anyway!

Don't you see something "hippocritical" about that too?

12-01-2011, 09:57 AM - 1 Like   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScreamingIdiot Quote
This is why I don't post in the Political Discussion threads often. The utter lack of respect for others and their beliefs displayed here is hippocritical. For being "tolerant", little tolerance is shown. For being educated, little direct knowledge is displayed. Pentax Forums shouldn't have a political / religious forum. I'm here to learn about cameras, not see intolerant threads every time I click "See New Posts."
This section is specifically and intentionally here to prevent the political and religious BS from taking over the rest of the site while still allowing members who feel strongly about issues to discuss them. So if you don't want to read the material don't read the political section. You can also, as has already been mentioned, place the whole P&R forum on IGNORE. I suggest you do so and refrain from insulting people who do care to converse.

And just to make sure, you are banned from this particular thread.

Mike
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12-01-2011, 10:19 AM - 2 Likes   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by ScreamingIdiot Quote
This is why I don't post in the Political Discussion threads often. The utter lack of respect for others and their beliefs displayed here is hippocritical. For being "tolerant", little tolerance is shown. For being educated, little direct knowledge is displayed. Pentax Forums shouldn't have a political / religious forum. I'm here to learn about cameras, not see intolerant threads every time I click "See New Posts."
I have been very tolerant of these attitudes for a long time...................

In Query XVII of Notes on the State of Virginia, he clearly outlines the views which led him to play a leading role in the campaign to separate church and state and which culminated in the Statute of Virginia for Religious Freedom: "The rights of conscience we never submitted, we could not submit. We are answerable for them to our God. The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are twenty gods, or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. ... Reason and free enquiry are the only effectual agents against error.[3]
Thomas Jefferson..........
Jefferson's Religious Beliefs Thomas Jefferson?s Monticello

QuoteQuote:
1813 May 31. (Jefferson to Richard Rush). "...the subject of religion, a subject on which I have ever been most scrupulously reserved. I have considered it as a matter between every man and his maker, in which no other, & far less the public, had a right to intermeddle."[12]
12-01-2011, 10:45 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Pretty much always the way it was from Ellis island on.......
and considering the right/Tea/Christian party is trying to conscript the US gov. to be a right/tea/christian country.. no matter how you look at it they are err. un-american..
Yep, right on! My neighbor who is a Firefighter and also a Christian who supports the Tea Party is un-american, even after risking his life recently to save a family from a burning house, I guess you can label him, err, un-american because of his beliefs.

My community works and reaching hand doesn't mean much either; toys-for-tots, hunger drives, the troubled teen support I provide, this all means nothing because of my beliefs - in short, my beliefs mean I am, err, un-american.

-----

I am going to make some calls today to let my friends know that they are un-american if they support the tea-party; hell, I am going to post this on facebook right now...
12-01-2011, 10:47 AM   #12
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The issue is nothing new and has caused problems for Christians since the first century. You don't have to read long into the Bible to find that faith in God should take first place in the Christians life. That has caused problems throughout history, even in the times of "Christian " government in the middle ages in Europe. That said, I think American Christians are for the most part a pretty patriotic group. I'm thankful every day to live in a country where I can exercise my freedom without fear. To be honest, I know little of the Muslim faith. To many Americans, Osama Bin Laden and his followers have been the face of the Muslim religion. The scar of 9/11 isn't healing and seeing newscasts of millions of Muslims worldwide dancing for joy in the streets in the days following still sticks in most peoples minds.

Also..dissent is a long tradition in the US. Issues are debated by every group and Christians have every right to make their views known as do Muslims and every other citizen. It's our constitutional right. Articles like this disturb me because it implies that the loyalty of people of faith is suspect when we disagree with something in government.
12-01-2011, 11:02 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Yes......... Americans are ,from my experience, generally more "un-american" (complain more, try to beat the system more, and generally a lot more apathetic and probably vote less) than foreigners since they are still happy to be away from where they were..
Foreigners that vote more? You must be specifically talking about naturalized citizens? I think it would be obvious that these people consider themselves "Americans" first because they went though and extensive and expensive process to become one. A lot of us are people who are a few generations into the country, so our freedoms are sometimes taken for granted.

This poll looks like just another way to degrade people and try to make one side seem better in the eyes of others. There really shouldn't be sides, but people insist on trying to point out differences in groups without looking at the individuals. I'm glad if one or another group feels American, but I don't think that proves any sort of true loyalty or lack there of for either side.
12-01-2011, 11:15 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Yep, right on! My neighbor who is a Firefighter and also a Christian who supports the Tea Party is un-american, even after risking his life recently to save a family from a burning house, I guess you can label him, err, un-american because of his beliefs.

My community works and reaching hand doesn't mean much either; toys-for-tots, hunger drives, the troubled teen support I provide, this all means nothing because of my beliefs - in short, my beliefs mean I am, err, un-american.

-----

I am going to make some calls today to let my friends know that they are un-american if they support the tea-party; hell, I am going to post this on facebook right now...
Now I have a much deeper understanding of "separation of church and state"!
12-01-2011, 11:25 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
Yep, right on! My neighbor who is a Firefighter and also a Christian who supports the Tea Party is un-american, even after risking his life recently to save a family from a burning house, I guess you can label him, err, un-american because of his beliefs.

My community works and reaching hand doesn't mean much either; toys-for-tots, hunger drives, the troubled teen support I provide, this all means nothing because of my beliefs - in short, my beliefs mean I am, err, un-american.

-----

I am going to make some calls today to let my friends know that they are un-american if they support the tea-party; hell, I am going to post this on facebook right now...
Are you ALL extremists????......................Read Jefferson.. get back to me. Tell me how it applies..........in your words.
I never said your beliefs are un-american BUT IF you believe YOUR beliefs are the only ones that should be accepted and tolerated than YES... feel free to post that.........

Make sure you include this:
http://blog.christianitytoday.com/ctpolitics/2011/08/tea_party_and_c.html
QuoteQuote:
The Tea Party’s generals may say their overriding concern is a smaller government, but not their rank and file, who are more concerned about putting God in government,”
GOD does not belong in gov........... not the same as having judeo/chrisian/humanist/ect. morals in government though..

This is always a fun compare/contrast.......
QuoteQuote:
Additionally, Sella said the bill gives school districts and teachers the right to choose an abstinence only approach to human growth and development based on parents’ wishes.

“What we wanted to say is it’s not up to the state to teach one [type] of sex education. No, there are other paths,” she told The Christian Post.

In opposition, Democratic state Sen. Jon Erpenbach (Dist. 27) told Fox News teaching abstinence is akin to going "back to the Flintstone era."

Meanwhile, Valerie Huber, executive director of the National Abstinence Education Association, denounced sex education curriculums that attempt to normalize teen sex.
http://www.christianpost.com/news/wis-senate-approves-bill-favoring-abstinen...-sex-ed-60392/

"attempt to normalize teen sex".
......................... EVERY time I read that I laugh..........

Last edited by jeffkrol; 12-01-2011 at 11:41 AM.
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