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12-02-2011, 01:27 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Reality says something else. The fact is, if you are a pro photographer and are using something other than Canon or Nikon, you are pretty much an outlier.
You seem to be classifying those doing technical-forensic work, aerial photography, arts-fashion shooting, many other commercial fields, as non-professionals. I'll say it again: C&N dominate some photographic fields in some parts of the world; and there is much more to professional photography than is encompassed by C&N products. See my previous post.

12-02-2011, 10:52 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by RioRico Quote
You seem to be classifying those doing technical-forensic work, aerial photography, arts-fashion shooting, many other commercial fields, as non-professionals. I'll say it again: C&N dominate some photographic fields in some parts of the world; and there is much more to professional photography than is encompassed by C&N products. See my previous post.
I'd be willing to bet that the fields that you quote are all dominated by Nikon or Canon.
12-04-2011, 01:20 AM   #18
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There are also those out there that think buying a D90 and charging $300 to shoot a wedding makes them professionals. Yes, I know someone like this. It annoys me to no end. Skill, knowledge and work ethic are more important than any brand or particular piece of gear. Canon and Nikon just happen to have the largest market share, so they're the default brand of choice.
12-04-2011, 02:16 AM   #19
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Industry standards and shepards, people go to the store and like sheep, buy whats shiny in the window casing.. I know 3 canon shooters with T2i/T1i/XSi's that just bought what was in store and the person behind the counter recommended... good little sheep.

12-04-2011, 04:14 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
You are using outliers and pretending that they represent a majority.
There is a big difference between a minority, even a small one, and an "outlier". Professional non-Canikon shooters are a minority, a pro using a Fisher-Price toy camera as his primary gear would be a outlier. (At this point, the number of pros that use iPhones -- at least sometimes -- is probably big enough to qualify for non-outlier status.)
12-04-2011, 11:18 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
At this point, the number of pros that use iPhones -- at least sometimes -- is probably big enough to qualify for non-outlier status.
An iPhone would be acceptable for some uses. In the right hands, an iPhone could be just fine for a web-only journalist. Fortunately, most people that have enough of an eye to make great photos with an iPhone have better equipment to make even better photos. Anyone who has visited any of the various bad photography parody sites knows that there are armies of D700 shooters out there that have no idea what they're doing.
12-05-2011, 12:38 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Don From The Radio Quote
An iPhone would be acceptable for some uses. In the right hands, an iPhone could be just fine for a web-only journalist.
No doubt -- and I saw recently that someone has made an adapter so you can even put SLR lenses on them.
12-11-2011, 05:36 PM   #23
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Here in Oz Canon and Nikon pretty much rule the roost, though as a professional I will use Leica and Pentax when their cameras are simply too big or in situations when their lenses simply aren't fast enough. I'm actually shifting out of Canon and doing more of my sports work with Nikon, I'm getting a 645D to do the High resolution stuff I used the Canon DSLRs for.

12-11-2011, 06:45 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
...... Professional non-Canikon shooters are a minority.......
Would this not make Canon and Nikon de facto industry standards?
12-11-2011, 06:50 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Would this not make Canon and Nikon de facto industry standards?
I wasn't arguing otherwise, just quibbling over the definition of "outlier". Being a minority, i.e. "not the standard" is still not an outlier. An outlier is basically something that shouldn't even be counted it is so weird compared to the rest of the sample -- 1/10 of %1 or less type numbers. I'm sure the non-Canikons have at least a few percent share of the pro ranks.
12-11-2011, 08:30 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by vonBaloney Quote
I'm sure the non-Canikons have at least a few percent share of the pro ranks.
Correct, at the really high end however consumer grade optics and camera bodies are eschewed in favour of High end medium format digital - Hasselblad being perhaps the most common as well as Phasemia cameras the Sinar Hy6 has not made much of an appearance but the 645D has certainly made waves. There are already several professionals I know of that are working with Pentax 645D cameras - some of my colleagues have even borrowed pentax 645 lenses from me for projects, as of yet I have never seen a Leica S2 outside of product demonstrations.
12-13-2011, 10:08 PM   #27
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Now I'm not a professional photographer (but I'm working in that direction), I feel the reason Canon and Nikon seem to be the standered is a three fold problem.

First part is name recognition. This is where Pentax started to loose to Nikon and Canon and even a little bit to oylmpus in the middle part of the 1970's. If my memory serves me correct, that was about the time Canon and Nikon started big ad campaigns.

Part two are the lenses that are avaiable. I know Pentax has made 300 mm and 600 mm lenses that are 2.8 fast (300mm 2.8 on ebay right now), but they are not in the catalog right now.

If you go and see what lenses are being made right now for Canon and Nikon, they both are offering 300, 400, 500, 600 and in the case of Canon 800mm and 1.4 and 2 X extenders. Granted these lenses, for the most part, are what dreams are made of because who can afford to put the same amount of money into a lens that you could buy a car with, but they are being sold. Go to any major sporting event and look around. All you will see are white Canon lenses.

Part three is the fact that for whatever reason, Pentax pulled all of the factory reps away from the camera stores. Without the reps pushing the product to the stores, the stores will not sell to the public.

At least that is how I see it.
12-14-2011, 12:42 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by bigdavephoto Quote
First part is name recognition. This is where Pentax started to loose to Nikon and Canon and even a little bit to oylmpus in the middle part of the 1970's. If my memory serves me correct, that was about the time Canon and Nikon started big ad campaigns.
that will have had more effect on the consumer market, but what really killed pentax was their adherence to a antiquated lens mount (M42) when Nikon and Canon had both switched to full bayonet systems, also Nikon bent over backwards to cater to the professional market a strategy that Canon would later use against Nikon. Pentax was left in the dust so to speak, Olympus,Minolta,Contax and even Leica were was also sidelined in the professional arena. the Pentax 645 and 67 systems were very popular with studio photographers and so were hasselblads, Mamiya and Bronica were not all that common but made a token appearance in the camera bags of working professionals.
12-14-2011, 12:53 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
that will have had more effect on the consumer market, but what really killed pentax was their adherence to a antiquated lens mount (M42) when Nikon and Canon had both switched to full bayonet systems, also Nikon bent over backwards to cater to the professional market a strategy that Canon would later use against Nikon. Pentax was left in the dust so to speak, Olympus,Minolta,Contax and even Leica were was also sidelined in the professional arena. the Pentax 645 and 67 systems were very popular with studio photographers and so were hasselblads, Mamiya and Bronica were not all that common but made a token appearance in the camera bags of working professionals.
The Pentax 645D is really the last stand that we have for the brand (in terms of Pro market). The tipping point for Pentax going back to the game is really about adding a FF camera that somewhat outperform 1 or 2 mainstream bodies out in the market now, AND don't forget, Pentax probably needs to throw about 20 modern lens in a year to catch up with others now.

Anyway, the reason i m holding a Pentax is my camera do what i want it to do and i do not have to use my camera to get "the shots" to pay the mortgage or rent.
12-14-2011, 02:12 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by taiweitai Quote
The tipping point for Pentax going back to the game is really about adding a FF camera that somewhat outperform 1 or 2 mainstream bodies out in the market now, AND don't forget, Pentax probably needs to throw about 20 modern lens in a year to catch up with others now.
But then you miss the whole point of pentax - they want to be a niche player,they want to be different not another "pro" brand.
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