[séamuis]

How many of the above actually advertised with the show? Boycott groups have a long history of listing advertisers who never actually advertised with the target.

As for the list... I drive a Honda, my next set of tires won't be from Goodyear (the set I have now suck), I don't eat salt from a can or fast food, I don't drink coffee, I don't wear makeup, I bank with a bank that isn't "Too big to fail", I don't shop at Sears or Walmart and I'm a Mac user.

there seems to be some misunderstanding on the actual number of companies that advertised with the show, some like Mcdonalds, old navy, and I think the Gap? are said o either not have pulled ads or never advertised at all. the firestorm against Lowes comes from the fact that they are the only company to public confirm that they stopped advertising for any reason, and the cited reasons link them directly to the FFA. of course the FFA also claimed they got Home Depot to stop advertising, but Home Depot claims its advertising stopped due simply to the ending of a contract?

[eddie1960]

I just find it all very disturbing seeing religious extremists attacking decent hard working american citizens because they aren't religious extremists. I won't apologize if I offend any christians here, because I'm only speaking what I feel to be the truth, but I will say that I understand full well that not every christian is this way. but the honest truth is, that I am far more afraid of christian extremists than I have ever been of muslim extremists pre and post 9/11. as far as I'm concerned, they pose a threat to this nation on a level that muslim extremists could only dream of. and when the extremists are 'attacked' for their extreme views they cry that war has been declared upon them. its all like circus side show. if the western idea of god is real, and there is a heaven and hell, I'm certain a majority of 'christians' in the country won't be meeting the pearly gates.

REality is the Christian Extremists are a very very vocal small minority that make the rest look bad. Biggest problem is the moderates don't seem to be stepping up and holding them to account thus inferring approval of their actions. I'm as far from religious as it gets but this is the way it looks to me.
I'm with you these people scare me more than any Islamist jihaddist does. and both just remind me of the middle ages crusaders.

[MRRiley]

... I am far more afraid of christian extremists than I have ever been of muslim extremists pre and post 9/11. as far as I'm concerned, they pose a threat to this nation on a level that muslim extremists could only dream of. and when the extremists are 'attacked' for their extreme views they cry that war has been declared upon them. ...

I agree completely! The only reason I am sort of defending Lowes is that they are in some ways the victim in this situation. FFA is the real bad guy here and it would be much more effective going after them than going after Lowes or any of the other companies who caved to their insidious influence.

Mike

p.s. just a short disclaimer - I don't even shop at Lowes very often since Home Depot is closer and offers a military discount even to military retirees (Lowes only gives it to active duty).

[séamuis]

REality is the Christian Extremists are a very very vocal small minority that make the rest look bad. Biggest problem is the moderates don't seem to be stepping up and holding them to account thus inferring approval of their actions. I'm as far from religious as it gets but this is the way it looks to me.
I'm with you these people scare me more than any Islamist jihaddist does. and both just remind me of the middle ages crusaders.

well I certainly understand that they are a minority in terms of the 70+ percent of americans who call themselves christians? but it isn't just the extreme extremists like these that I think are a threat, its just as you say, the moderates that allow this to happen in their name that are a big part of the problem. but in terms of my 'majority' bit about getting into heaven, I realize its a bit off topic, but I am convinced through my own experience that most people who call themselves christians are truthfully anything but, and if they believe that being christian is the only true way to meet your 'saviour', then most won't be meeting him. this extends well beyond the reach of extremists and encompasses what I believe is a complete lack of what are supposed to be proper christian values and beliefs according to the teachings of christ and the bible. but thats something for another discussion really, I just thought id explain a little better what I was saying.

I agree completely! The only reason I am sort of defending Lowes is that they are in some ways the victim in this situation. FFA is the real bad guy here and it would be much more effective going after them than going after Lowes or any of the other companies who caved to their insidious influence.

I would never claim lowe's to be a victim in any way, especially when they have every right to make the decision they so chose. they weren't forced by any law to succumb to the threats of anyone. they pushed morals and ethics aside to protect money. being legal to do so, doesn't make it the right thing to do, so saying they are a victim in any way is just wrong to me. I agree though that we should be going after the FFA, I agree completely as it would be far more effective, however you have to take into account that attacking a big company like lowe's will bring national attention to something in a way that attacking the FFA directly may not, and lets face it, taking on corporate greed or complete lack of ethics (you know since they are people too) in any way at the same time is in my eyes a good thing. I'm all for doing away with extremists like the FFA, but I boycott lowe's as a personal protest as far as my own morals and ethics are concerned and I think thats why a lot of people are doing the same thing.

---

Last edited by séamuis; 12-14-2011 at 11:05 AM.

[eddie1960]

well I certainly understand that they are a minority in terms of the 70+ percent of americans who call themselves christians? but it isn't just the extreme extremists like these that I think are a threat, its just as you say, the moderates that allow this to happen in their name that are a big part of the problem. but in terms of my 'majority' bit about getting into heaven, I realize its a bit off topic, but I am convinced through my own experience that most people who call themselves christians are truthfully anything but, and if they believe that being christian is the only true way to meet your 'saviour', then most won't be meeting him. this extends well beyond the reach of extremists and encompasses what I believe is a complete lack of what are supposed to be proper christian values and beliefs according to the teachings of christ and the bible. but thats something for another discussion really, I just thought id explain a little better what I was saying.

I tend to agree. I also feel that in general most Muslims actually better understand and follow their teachings - and denounce the extremists more consistently. BUT there is a reason i don't hold with pretty much any religion (well I really can't knock the Buddhists or the Vaishnavists - krishnas for example - to tell the truth)

[séamuis]

I tend to agree. I also feel that in general most Muslims actually better understand and follow their teachings - and denounce the extremists more consistently. BUT there is a reason i don't hold with pretty much any religion (well I really can't knock the Buddhists or the Vaishnavists - krishnas for example - to tell the truth)

I completely agree about muslims in general denouncing extremists, and if christians truly were having 'war declared on them' in this country they may actually be doing the same thing. for clarification, Buddhism isn't actually a religion, its more of a way of life, or rather simply an understanding of life. I personally have a strong interest in Buddhism that I have gotten from my little sister. if there is any one spiritual way of life that humans should be following its Buddhism. I also have a passing interest in Hinduism, but thats mainly because I have an interest in Indian culture in general.

something has to be said for showing people that the world is better off being nice to each other and practicing peace, for the simple sake of living a better life, than doing so because you fear being tortured in hell. western religion works through fear and anyone who understands the basics of humanity knows that only leads to darkness. :ugh:

[eddie1960]

Thanks

I knew Buddhism isn't really a religion ( a couple of family members and friends are practicing Buddhists, and I too have looked at Hinduism - and when i was young the Krishnas fed me more than once part of the meal being some exposure to the philosophy - nothing is truly free) having worked at a big box where 75-80% of my staff were from either India or Pakistan i got exposure to most of the different philosophies - my toughest boss was a Sikh) Toronto has a very varied population so we tend to be exposed to more cultures than many US cites of the same size.

[séamuis]

Thanks

I knew Buddhism isn't really a religion ( a couple of family members and friends are practicing Buddhists, and I too have looked at Hinduism - and when i was young the Krishnas fed me more than once part of the meal being some exposure to the philosophy - nothing is truly free) having worked at a big box where 75-80% of my staff were from either India or Pakistan i got exposure to most of the different philosophies - my toughest boss was a Sikh) Toronto has a very varied population so we tend to be exposed to more cultures than many US cites of the same size.

Sikh's are tough people, no doubt about it. have to be though, with so much of the western world having forced their way into their lives and culture. its a shame they are misunderstood here in the states still. ignorance knows no bounds. Hinduism, so beautiful in many respects, but when you understand the teachings of Siddhārtha Gautama, you know that even Hinduism is flawed on many of the same levels that western religion is. religion in itself is just a flawed concept. but you can't deny how wonderful Hindu deities are. ill admit to preying to Lord Vinayaka on many occasions to help remove tough obstacles in my life.

namaste.

[GeneV]

there seems to be some misunderstanding on the actual number of companies that advertised with the show, some like Mcdonalds, old navy, and I think the Gap? are said o either not have pulled ads or never advertised at all. the firestorm against Lowes comes from the fact that they are the only company to public confirm that they stopped advertising for any reason, and the cited reasons link them directly to the FFA. of course the FFA also claimed they got Home Depot to stop advertising, but Home Depot claims its advertising stopped due simply to the ending of a contract?

Quite a few of the companies listed on the FFA web site have overtly disputed that they pulled ads. This includes Bank of America, Sears and Campbell Soup. The site is actually a bit ridiculous in claiming that some 60 or so companies responded to their demands. That would be quite a sponsorship.

[séamuis]

KAYAK - We Handled This Poorly

Kayak's open letter concerning pulling of advertising.

Lastly, I watched the first two episodes. Mostly, I just thought the show sucked.

I still have to wonder, if this had been a show about a christian family, even if controversial in any way, or 'sucked' would people be so upfront and quick about pulling advertising? I mean, did companies like Kayak not even screen the show before deciding to advertise or not? and in what ways were TLC not upfront on the nature of the show? it would seem just the title 'American Muslim' in the context of TLC's normal program type says all you really need to know about the nature of the show, if you have any common sense and reasoning abilities. the letter seems to clearly state that person in charge of marketing hadn't even seen the show until after the FFA made a big deal out of it and lobbied companies to pull advertising. their stance on not wanting to advertise is mostly because the marketing director thought the show sucked? didn't matter the ratings and how many people they could be exposing their services to? the whole letter sounds dodgy to me and reeks of doing exactly what they said they don't do: caving to pressure from extremist organizations. they have a right to do so, but it seems to stink of foul ideals. at least thats what I read, and the whole very typical 'we have employees of all walks of life and religious views' reeks of that old defense 'I'm not racist, I have a black friend!' but I guess maybe I misunderstood he letter...

I will have to asses my usage of the Kayak apps on my phone at this point, as their business ethics seem to be a bit dodgy. the whole idea of blaming TLC for their own complete lack of common sense and intelligent business practices is something that to me, oozes poor standards.

[GeneV]

As usual, Jon Stewart does an excellent number on this one. Kabulvision - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 12/13/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

FFA's real objection to the show, Stewart claims, was that it challenged his false stereotype about Muslim Americans. But "All-American Muslim" isn't the only TLC show to challenge negative stereotypes. "I am also troubled that no one on your show 'Little People, Big World' whistles while they work, or makes candy for Willy Wonka,"

[séamuis]

As usual, Jon Stewart does an excellent number on this one. Kabulvision - The Daily Show with Jon Stewart - 12/13/11 - Video Clip | Comedy Central

FFA's real objection to the show, Stewart claims, was that it challenged his false stereotype about Muslim Americans. But "All-American Muslim" isn't the only TLC show to challenge negative stereotypes. "I am also troubled that no one on your show 'Little People, Big World' whistles while they work, or makes candy for Willy Wonka,"

I saw that this morning, and I must say, as usual John and his writers did one hell of a job. its a real shame though, that you have to turn to a fake news comedy show hosted by a comedian on a channel devoted to comedy to get just a small slice of common sense and reasonable thinking, as well as news reporting on actual serious issues in this country. that says a lot doesn't it?

[eddie1960]

I read something a while back saying a large number of people are now getting their news from fake news shows (like Jon Stewart and of course i guess we need to include Fox News then )

[séamuis]

I read something a while back saying a large number of people are now getting their news from fake news shows (like Jon Stewart and of course i guess we need to include Fox News then )

I never miss an episode of the daily show. the whole idea though, makes you wonder if we should redefine the definition of news reporting? if the fake ones offer up more real, fact honest news and tackle more of the real serious issues than the 'real' news shows, you have to question who is real and who is the the actual fakes? I also like the daily shows brand of news reporting. never taking yourself too seriously is much better than being extremist in your views. much more trustworthy as well. the daily show is the ONLY american 'news' program I watch.

[eddie1960]

I never miss an episode of the daily show. the whole idea though, makes you wonder if we should redefine the definition of news reporting? if the fake ones offer up more real, fact honest news and tackle more of the real serious issues than the 'real' news shows, you have to question who is real and who is the the actual fakes? I also like the daily shows brand of news reporting. never taking yourself too seriously is much better than being extremist in your views. much more trustworthy as well. the daily show is the ONLY american 'news' program I watch.

I like jon, and because i tend to agree with his politics he is often correct in my view. I prefer new to be unbiased as possible though, i don't mind thinking for myself. unfortunately that type of journalism has become endangered in print and almost non existent in TV news (I get probably a broader ass't of new coverage by being in Canada though. CBC is still pretty good, and BBC is my favourite for the most part. I rarely watch CNN now and only watch fox for the sad scary humour of it occasionally. Al Jazeera is actually pretty good in the English version offering an alternative viewpoint