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12-15-2011, 08:25 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Ron Paul is anti-war and pro legalization of narcotics, but he is anti-choice and anti-gay marriage. He passes it off as a "States Rights" issue which is just a dog whistle to the White Supremacist and Militia movements. He calls it the "We the People" act.

This is from 2007 but is still relevant.
Ron Paul's Record in Congress
The Anti-Choice stand is where he really takes a hard turn away from principled Libertarianism and even state's rights. He has supported bills to federalize this issue that are in the same vein as the Mississippi law about the inception of life at conception.

12-15-2011, 09:45 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
Ron Paul is anti-war and pro legalization of narcotics, but he is anti-choice and anti-gay marriage. He passes it off as a "States Rights" issue which is just a dog whistle to the White Supremacist and Militia movements. He calls it the "We the People" act.

This is from 2007 but is still relevant.
Ron Paul's Record in Congress
Then he isn't so principled, after all.
12-15-2011, 10:00 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by causey Quote
Then he isn't so principled, after all.
He has principles, they just change every once in a while. He was a Republican Congressman in the early 80's, then in 1984 he decided he was a Libertarian and therefore couldn't be involved in the Government anymore. Then 12 years later he decided he was Republican again and wanted his seat back. So he ran against a Dixiecrat turned Republican and forced a runoff. Newt Gingrich supported the ex-Dixiecrat, instead of remaining neutral. That's where his animosity towards Newt comes from.

He also has some other non-Libertarian principles, like being all for the government protecting the shrimp industry from competition. He also isn't all that anti-war, just anti-foerign war. He thinks big military bases in the US (especially Texas) are just fine, that we need lots of nuclear missiles, and an antiballistic missile system.
12-15-2011, 10:23 AM   #19
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I have been a supporter of Ron Paul for years and I'm encouraged to see his poll numbers. The one thing that is annoying me about this whole process is the press and polls are picking winners and losers and carrying on like the races are almost already decided and not one single primary vote has been cast anywhere.

12-15-2011, 01:02 PM   #20
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I don't think Libertarianism gets to the heart of Ron Paul's political philosophy. I think a better description would be Ayn Randism.

A lot of people, including myself, like Ron Paul for his honesty. But honesty isn't all that matters when running a country. Marx might have been honest as the day is long, but his economic policies still had devastating consequences when implemented. IOW, honesty and sound social/political/economic philosophy are both required.

What Paul gets wrong is first believing laissez-faire capitalism works far more than it actually does, and then believing the individual is all that matters. Unregulated capitalism does not work, we've proven it several times (though many are in denial about it).

But his second belief is the most destructive because the individual is not all that's important -- that which unites us is critically important as well. Unity is what we do in emergencies because it makes us collectively powerful, so a country set up to service only individualism will stumble in crises. Unity is also the basis of love, compassion, altruism . . . some of the greatest aspects of being human, but Randists would eliminate those qualities from politics, just like Rand herself personally seemed so devoid of such traits. Her philosophy (to me) is her trying to reshape the world in her own self-absorbed image. So while I like Ron Paul's honesty and frankness, I hope to God neither he nor any other Randist ever gets hold of the Presidency.



From the article, "The Legacy of Ayn Rand: Rand, Ron Paul and Paul Ryan"

QuoteQuote:
The Golden Girl and philosopher of the Far Right Wing of the Republican Party is none other than a Russian émigré who died nearly 30 years ago, but her ideas are still seen as bright and bold by her acolytes, influencing not only the direction of the Republican Party, but where they want to take this country.

The Rand recipe for a better America? In two words: laissez-faire capitalism. You need only to read her magnum opus, Atlas Shrugged, to see how she detested the average American and loved capitalists, particularly hot, smart ones. According to Ayn Rand, America needed to rid itself of “moochers,” meaning anyone receiving government assistance from Social Security to unemployment compensation, and from the “looters,” meaning the government, which she claimed beleaguers and hamstrings what Republicans call the “job creators.”

Just read what said to Mike Wallace in a 1959 interview:

Wallace: And you believe that there should be no right by the government to tax. You believe there should be no such thing as unemployment compensation, regulation during times of stress.

Rand: That’s right. I am opposed to all forms of control. I am for an absolute, laissez-faire, free, unregulated economy.

Gee, where have we heard that before? On the floor of Congress. And even House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) before the Economic Club of Washington DC sounded like he was channeling Rand when he expounded that business “has been antagonized by a government that favors bureaucrats over market-based solutions. They've been demoralized by a government that causes despair when we need it to provide reassurance and inspire confidence.”

Senator Rand Paul (R-KY), and son of Congressman Ron Paul, first rhapsodized over the philosophy of Ayn Rand while in college in letters to the editors and op ed pieces. He warbled the praise of her book Atlas Shrugged, about “a dystopianUnited States where most of society's most productive citizens [aka job creators] refuse to be exploited by increasing taxation and government regulations….”


Ayn Rand Stamp
But young Paul’s passion was no youthful fever, nor was it because he was named for the author. He wasn't. His name is Randal Howard Paul and he was called Randy for years till his wife took to calling him Rand. However, as he says in the YouTube video about his name, he is happy people think he’s Ayn Rand’s namesake.

Now twenty-seven years later, this past spring, while sitting on the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee, an older Paul railed against government plans to transition from the incandescent light bulb to more energy saving light bulbs, citing Rand’s 1937 novel Anthem. The similarity, according to Paul, is that "individual choice is banned and the collective basically runs society.” Just for the record: The companies making light bulbs were all for this change.

Then there is Congressman Paul Ryan (R-Wis.), who concocted the budget plan he dubbed the "Road to Prosperity," the one rebuked by the Catholic Church. He is also a fan of Ayn Rand. He invokes her name and principles in speeches as he most recently did before the Heritage Foundation when he warned his audience that “We're coming close to a tipping point in America where we might have a net majority of takers versus makers in society and that could become very dangerous if it sets in as a permanent condition.”

Translation of Takers v. Makers: Moochers v. Job Creators.

Ryan is such a Rand devotee that he even requires his staffers to read Atlas Shrugged, especially since he believes the President’s economic policy is a nightmare right out of an Ayn Rand novel. This devotion to Rand’s principles is the soul of the Ryan budget and the reason that many condemn it as anti-Christian as Ayn Rand herself was.

Congressman Ron Paul (R-Texas) has been a life long libertarian and contrarian, reveling in tweaking his fellow Republicans for their spendthrift ways. And now he can look at them as the deficit they caused swallows the country and can say, “I told you so.”

But sadly, he too is infected by the Ayn Rand virus, which is probably how his son contracted his own virus. In fact, according to the National Journal, “By far, the person most likely to mention Ayn Rand [on the floor of Congress] is Ron Paul, the current libertarian hero.… He has invoked Ayn Rand's name nine times in the span we [the National Journal] surveyed: when criticizing the post office, while commemorating the 100th anniversary of her birth, and in an article submitted mentioning her during a tribute to Milton Friedman. And Ron Paul is notably the only member of Congress to actually quote Ayn Rand during this period.

“Paul's favorite occasion to bring up Ayn Rand is when he is talking about the one government spending program he apparently loves: NASA. On at least five different times he's submitted the same Ayn Rand quote commemorating the Apollo 11 moon landing.”

In fact, if you look at Congressman Paul’s record and listen carefully to what he says during the debates, you would think he had just stepped out of an Ayn Rand book.

So is the country ready to go really, really Right into Libertarian Land? Probably not as far as Congressman Paul would like to lead them, but he has had a sizable impact upon how Republicans now think. And the fervor of his followers is not to be dismissed. They will be a huge factor in the GOP primary, driving the last GOP candidate standing even further along the path to cupidity at the expense of the rest of us.

Ayn Rand would probably be surprised to see just how respectable her ideas have become. However, the 2012 election will tell us if the American voters are ready to turn their back on the nation’s core principles and follow the tenets of the woman some have called the “godless goddess of greed.

Last edited by les3547; 12-15-2011 at 05:40 PM.
12-17-2011, 08:30 AM   #21
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How Ayn Rand Seduced Generations of Young Men and Helped Make the U.S. Into a Selfish, Greedy Nation | Gender | AlterNet
12-17-2011, 10:56 AM   #22
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Nice article. I frankly am amazed at both how insidiously Randism has creeped in (despite admirers openly declaring it), and how little progressives and the news media have brought it to light.

12-17-2011, 11:55 AM   #23
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There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. - John Rogers, Kung Fu Monkey

Perhaps it's a good thing I read Lord of the Rings and not Atlas Shrugged.
12-19-2011, 01:29 PM   #24
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Jesus' General: Ron Paul: The Choice of Proudly White Patriots, Everywhere

QuoteQuote:
Rictoven2
We are lucky to have him run, whether or not he is the White messiah, doesn't really matter. At present he is by far a better politician and statesman than has come our way for a long time.
As far as David Duke running, I think that would be great but I wonder if that wouldn't split the vote between Paul and Duke causing both to lose?
QuoteQuote:
Rictoven2:
Paul talked about removing the unnecessary gov't agencies which aren't listed in the Constitution. He means to do away with Israels DHS contracts and put an end to the liberal faggots molesting old women and children.
QuoteQuote:
WotanTheGreat:
Duke endorsed Paul in 2008 when Duke decided not to run.
QuoteQuote:
MelGibsonIsGod:
Unless we get a far right-wing dictator like Hitler elected in America, everything will not be reversed overnight. Getting Ron Paul elected would be a huge win for our political stances.
QuoteQuote:
It's no surprise that the good, godfearing conservatives at Stormfront love Patriot Paul. Heck, his newsletter sounds like pretty much the same thing:

"We are constantly told that it is evil to be afraid of black men, but it is hardly irrational. Black men commit murders, rapes, robberies, muggings, and burglaries all out of proportion to their numbers."

"Perhaps the L.A. experience should not be surprising. The riots, burning, looting, and murders are only a continuation of 30 years of racial politics."

"Opinion polls consistently show that only about 5% of blacks have sensible political opinions."

"I think we can safely assume that 95% of the black males in that city are semi-criminal or entirely criminal."
12-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #25
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Anti-Drug-War Advocate Gary Johnson Will Now Run for President as a Libertarian, Not a Republican | AlterNet
12-21-2011, 03:51 PM   #26
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Daily Kos: Ron Paul's Racist Newsletters Return
12-22-2011, 08:20 AM   #27
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Also re: said newsletters

QuoteQuote:
But the questions remain. If Ron Paul is so libertarian that he won't even police people who use his name, if his movement is filled with incompetents and opportunists, then what kind of a president would he make? Would he even check in to see if his ideas are being implemented? Who would he appoint to Cabinet positions?

These are all legitimate questions. And the media is going to start asking them now. If there isn't already a "ceiling" on Ron Paul's support, widespread knowledge of the newsletters could build one quickly.
The Story Behind Ron Paul's Racist Newsletters - Michael Brendan Dougherty - Politics - The Atlantic
12-22-2011, 09:20 AM   #28
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Daily Kos: Ron Paul can't seem to take the Heat, Walks Away From CNN Interview

12-23-2011, 09:10 AM   #29
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SMOKING GUN.................
QuoteQuote:
In 1996, Paul told the Dallas Morning News that the material was accurate but had merely been taken out of context.

Critics say the newsletter flap could hurt him in Iowa, arguing that although the controversial newsletters were reported on before, many voters were unaware of them until now.

The seeming flip-flopping and "controversy makes Paul look like just another politician," said the Christian Science Monitor's Peter Grier.

Leon Wolf of the conservative blog Red State said the C-SPAN video was damaging.

For "not having any inkling about what was in it, Paul was remarkably well informed as to its contents," he said
.

Read more: Video surfaces of Ron Paul talking about racist newsletters in 1995, far earlier than he said he knew about them - NY Daily News
12-23-2011, 10:33 AM   #30
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you are really bad at this you know that? your pandering is just.. bad.

did you even watch the interview? the interviewer asked the same question over, and over, and over. he answered the question, and that was it. he didn't ignore it, he didn't side step it. he answered. but she apparently didn't like his answer so she kept asking it. how long does he have to stand there being asked something he already answered? her interview was terrible. in my opinion, he walking away was more than justified. he answered and she didn't want to ask any other questions. thats not an interview thats an interrogation. who would willingly subject themselves to a senseless interrogation? ultimately, wether or not he is lying, the american people will decide, and will decide if that matters any more than newt being an adulterer or romney being a mormon, or bachman being completely nuts. but even if he is lying, it doesn't change the fact that he completely and openly answered the question.

you really need to lay off the liberal laugh gas for a while and come back to reality. :ugh:

Last edited by séamuis; 12-23-2011 at 10:39 AM.
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