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12-16-2011, 01:48 AM   #1
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Iraq War

Hey, didn't anyone hear...the war in Iraq is over. Who won anyway?

Jason

12-16-2011, 05:51 AM   #2
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Old news?

12-16-2011, 05:55 AM   #3
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Yesterday's (literally) news....

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12-16-2011, 05:56 AM   #4
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Who won?

The same ones that are assured of winning every war.
The arms, equipment, and supplies sellers.


Last edited by Parallax; 12-16-2011 at 06:13 AM.
12-16-2011, 05:59 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
Who won anyway?
Define "win"
12-16-2011, 07:19 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
Who won?

The same ones that are assured of winning every war.
The arms, equipment, and supplies sellers.
the discussion is over. nothing more needs to be said.

its time to bring them all home. its time for all the armies to come home and finally lay their weapons down. it was time a long time ago.

QuoteOriginally posted by wildman Quote
Define "win"
you can't. because wars like this no longer are capable of having a winner. the definition of 'winning' simply cannot be applied to modern warfare. all you can really do is tally up the dead and the new millionaires and billionaires.
12-16-2011, 10:55 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by séamuis Quote
you can't. because wars like this no longer are capable of having a winner. the definition of 'winning' simply cannot be applied to modern warfare. all you can really do is tally up the dead and the new millionaires and billionaires.
Actually, Jim has it right. The Iraq war was never about winning on the ground, it was about winning at the turnstiles. It was about selling arms to the military to make money for Dick Cheney's friends who make the tools of killing on a grand scale.
The losers were the country of Iraq, which got trashed, a few hundred thousand Iraqis who died, and their families, and a few thousand Americans and their families.
The winners never stepped out of their boardrooms.
12-16-2011, 11:48 AM   #8
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...well I do believe that was a major influence on the decision to go to war. But, more frighteningly, there was a big amount of non-reality based wishful thinking, of the Disney variety. The neocons truly believed that there was a nascent bourgeois middle class ready to create a planned democracy, if only they were rid of Hussein.

This fantasy is at base a wet dream of big business also, in the final analysis. The US markets are drying up because nobody has money to spend? We can collect deposits and sell US culture to eager masses in the Arab countries, in India, in Pakistan, and (here's where they really salivate) China. The theory was, once the eager little people in Iraq signed up and started to benefit from a more Western life and consumption style, all other Arab countries would be forced to follow suit.

I often wonder if these people's idea of workers is based on the 7 dwarves...

12-16-2011, 12:16 PM   #9
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Again....I've heard this one before. I'll believe it when every last soldier is HOME...
12-16-2011, 12:31 PM   #10
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At the time it seemed to me that the strategic plan was to create an ally and a military base in the middle of the oil-rich, problematic region. From there it would be easy to intervene to keep the oil flowing. Having a friendly government in Baghdad would greatly facilitate having a steady supply in itself (major confirmed reserves right there, most of the rest of it right next to it). I fully expected to see an extensive, long-lasting, well-planned exercise in nation building to realize the assumed strategic goal.

Last edited by jolepp; 12-18-2011 at 02:03 AM. Reason: rephrased
12-18-2011, 02:03 AM   #11
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QuoteQuote:
The last convoy of US troops to leave Iraq has entered Kuwait, nearly nine years after the invasion that toppled Saddam Hussein.

The final column of about 100 armoured vehicles carrying 500 soldiers crossed the southern Iraqi desert overnight.

At the peak of the operation there were 170,000 US troops and more than 500 bases in Iraq.
Nearly 4,500 US soldiers and tens of thousands of Iraqis have died since the US-led campaign began in 2003.

The operation has cost Washington nearly $1 trillion (£643bn).
...
The only US military presence left in Iraq now is 157 soldiers responsible for training at the US embassy, as well as a small contingent of marines protecting the diplomatic mission.

The low-key US exit was in stark contact to the blaze of aerial bombardment Washington unleashed against Saddam Hussein in 2003.
...
BBC News - Last US troops to leave Iraq cross Kuwait border

edit:

Another related piece (NYT): Iraq, a War Obama Didn’t Want, Shaped His Foreign Policy

Last edited by jolepp; 12-18-2011 at 02:41 AM.
12-18-2011, 06:57 AM   #12
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In a 13 month period from May 2003 to June 2004, the Federal Reserve sent nearly $12 billion in cash, mainly in $100 bills from the United States to Iraq,to do that, the Federal Reserve Bank in New York had to pack 281 million individual bills … onto wooden pallets to be shipped to Iraq. The cash weighed more than 363 tons and was loaded onto C-130 cargo planes to be flown into Baghdad
12-18-2011, 01:16 PM   #13
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Should America have pulled out? Shouldn't they have? It's not an easy question for me, as while America shouldn't have gone in to Iraq in the first place, having gone in and unleashed the forces of hellfire, everything that emanates from that is now America's (and her gullible allies') responsibility.

I hope that pulling the forces is based on a clear assessment of what is going to improve the situation in Iraq, rather than politically motivated. I feel bad for American servicemen's families, but the Iraqis deserve better than to have their unstable country left in a precarious position. After what they have been through, the Iraqis should be uppermost in erveyone's considerations.

Certainly, now the forces are (more or less) out there should be an ongoing financial obligation to promote peace and development in Iraq.
12-18-2011, 02:45 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
At the time it seemed to me that the strategic plan was to create an ally and a military base in the middle of the oil-rich, problematic region. From there it would be easy to intervene to keep the oil flowing. Having a friendly government in Baghdad would greatly facilitate having a steady supply in itself (major confirmed reserves right there, most of the rest of it right next to it). I fully expected to see an extensive, long-lasting, well-planned exercise in nation building to realize the assumed strategic goal.
+1
Very well put.
Cheers, Pickles.
12-22-2011, 05:38 AM   #15
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BBC News - Iraq war in figures
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