[MRRiley]

Folks need to note that the title of the thread references "America Haters"... not "AmericaN Haters." It always seems that many if not most people around the world will state that they don't hate Americans per see, but they do hate "America." This translates to they "hate our government and it's actions." The thing that bothers me is that this largely makes them hypocrites. They welcome and almost beg for our financial help but then actively work against our interests.

A prime current example is Pakistan, remember them... that's where bin Laden was hiding out right next door to their senior military officer school... Anyway, the Pakistani ambassador is complaining loudly that if the U.S. cuts off financial aid their people will hate us... as if the average Pakistani doesn't hate us already... all the while doing jis best to figure out how to come here and open a convenience store.

Mike

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Last edited by MRRiley; 12-22-2011 at 05:34 AM. Reason: typos

[eddie1960]

I think what many object to is actions tied to here's the money, but this big string is attached where you must do as we ask. Too often america is seen to be imposing it's will on other countries for their own purposes. Not that most other countries are much better but when you are the only large power it looks like bullying to others. The Image the Whacko Right presents doesn't help.

[les3547]

America has been greed and it is OWS, it has war mongered in Iraq and it's been hippies and war protests, it has been slavery and it has been the equal rights movement. All big countries have multifaceted personalities. America is no different, except we've had a great deal of financial and military power behind those facets. I suspect any country with so much power would find itself at times using it improperly. But America has used it for good too, and when America-bashing is going on, that is just as propagandish as extolling only what she does well.

Should the world be worried about America? Absolutely because the percentage of its voters who want a world-cooperating, citizen-cared-for, children-educating nation is less than half, and that means the politics of those who would create a world-dominating, every-man-for himself, dumb-down nation can get in power (as they are trying to do right now).

[Wheatfield]

Every one, and every nation has it's good and bad points. Hitler was an animal lover, and absolutely doted on Goldie, his GSD.
Does this very real love and tenderness make us forgive the fact that some 20 million souls perished because of his actions?
I'm certain John Wayne Gacie had his good points, as did Pinochet. Saddam Hussein was, by all accounts, a loving father, even to the point of setting his kids up in the family business.
We hung him anyway.
Mike, your country, like all others, will always be judged more for the bad things it does than the good. The article you quoted was written when America actually was doing more good than harm in the world. Unfortunately, in my lifetime, the tide has gone out, and while America still does good deeds, it does a lot of horrendous things, things which cannot be forgiven easily, and things which the country doesn't even seem to realize are wrong.
Things which far overshadow the good deeds.
You just, as a nation, shrug, say oops, our bad, and go on to screw up some other country exactly the same way.
Your President abhors torture, apparently, but the torture hasn't stopped. Your President says human rights above all else are paramount, but your country continues to violate human rights on a grand scale, both at home and offshore.

So yes, count me as one of the ones who has few problems with most Americans ( the ones who think America can do no wrong can die of cancer in a cold alley for all I care), but who abhors what America has become, and who despises America for what she has done more recently than 1945.
Like Hitler, loving your pet dog doesn't make up for causing the deaths of so many millions of people, including members of my immediate family. I've long since forgiven Germany, and if America actually settles down and goes back to being a positive force rather than a harbiter of mayhem, I'll forgive her too.
But not today, and not because someone gets all pious on an internet forum.

[normhead]

A prime current example is Pakistan, remeber them... thats where bin Laden was hiding out right next door to their senior military officer school... Anyway, the Pakistani ambassador is complaining loudly that if the U.S. cuts off financial aid their people will hate us... as if the average Pakistani doesn't hate us already... all the while doing jis best to figure out how to come here and open a convenience store.

And what actual business except for vengeance, does America even have being in Pakistan? Almost all American intervention is done to make an area stable enough for American investment. The 1% who control most of the wealth benefit, while the 99% share most of the cost. Americans continue to believe that they have the right to make the world safe for Americans, anywhere in the world. Well technically, they have the right to make the world safe for Americans anywhere on American soil. In world affairs, you cannot effectively have over lapping jurisdictions. Essentially America is still fighting a war with several competing jurisdictions, China and to a lesser extent Russia. Opportunity for one system means a lack of opportunity for the other. There is competition. To deny that most of American foreign policy, many relief and missionary efforts included, are an effort to expand the influence of the American economic system, and in that sense not altruistic at all, would be naive.

The Pakistani's have become very adept at playing both sides against the middle. The question is not, why doesn't Pakistan give more credit to the US, the question is, why does the US give any money to the Pakistani military, at all. And the answer is, they believe the Pakistani military may be able to pacify Pakistan and make it safe for American investment. They are making a huge gamble with money they don't have. And make no mistake, military aid is the worst way to help anyone. Yet this is what you're calling "aid". It's not aid. It's funding a foreign army with the expectation that they will become mercenaries in support of your cause. That is not aid, that is hegemonic self interest.

Don't get me wrong here, I don't hate Americans... or America, and majority of people accused of being "america haters" aren't, just as the majority of Americans accused of being communists weren't. This is a term coined by the right wing to target anyone critical of their right wing agenda, which includes an oppressed and impotent middle class and continuous military expansion. Seeing America for what it is is not hating. Although some on the right might try and tell you it is. In their view, you're either a cheer leader for all things American, if you are critical of anything they are not critical of, then you are un-American. And that's where the hypocrisy comes in. There is no benefit to independent thought in a right wing system. The righties will tell you you're un-American for not loving America, then rail against welfare, the graduated income tax, the "lefties" who wouldn't let them use Atomic weapons in Vietnam, unions, and the minimum wage, and tell you Canada is a communist country because they have universal health care. In other words, their complaint is not people who hate America, it's people who don't hate the things about America that they hate. Now, that's blind hypocrisy.

[Nesster]

And what actual business except for vengeance, does America even have being in Pakistan? Almost all American intervention is done to make an area stable enough for American investment.

Depends on who's running the state dept... It boils down to a calculation vs Chinese influence between Pakistan and India, and the tense relations between the two. And sure, economic interests come with this. While of course the secretary of state and president would like to see a more open, democratic and stable country, that really isn't the goal of the policy, nor should it be (at least not exclusively)... this is diplomacy where one influences and shades another sovereign country. The out of power critics are free to spout their 'purist' ideas this way and that... but note, once in power, other realities sink in.

[Wheatfield]

Depends on who's running the state dept...

Corporations run the State Department, the politicos are just there for window dressing and to add a facade of legitimacy to the process.

[Nesster]

Corporations run the State Department, the politicos are just there for window dressing and to add a facade of legitimacy to the process.

Well, in Banana Republic times this was even more true, but even then there was a legitimate and separate set of goals and policies that wasn't always directly linked to business. As an organization, a government has the same self-preservation goals as any other; and thus will always act on the basis of said goals.

Now, sometimes these goals are pretty screwy, I admit.

[stevewig]

America has been greed and it is OWS, it has war mongered in Iraq and it's been hippies and war protests, it has been slavery and it has been the equal rights movement. All big countries have multifaceted personalities. America is no different, except we've had a great deal of financial and military power behind those facets. I suspect any country with so much power would find itself at times using it improperly. But America has used it for good too, and when America-bashing is going on, that is just as propagandish as extolling only what she does well.

Should the world be worried about America? Absolutely because the percentage of its voters who want a world-cooperating, citizen-cared-for, children-educating nation is less than half, and that means the politics of those who would create a world-dominating, every-man-for himself, dumb-down nation can get in power (as they are trying to do right now).

I pretty much agree with this sentiment and it is not, in my opinion "ANTI-AMERICANISM" but factual truth told objectively and without bias!

All nations with world-wide interests have abused their strength throughout history and that certainly includes the latest of the abusers the British Empire and America. Yes they have been enormous powers for the general good of the world and that should never be forgotten. At the same time neither should the evil be forgotten nor should it be minimized, rationalized or swept under the carpet!

America has proven to be a most valiant friend and neighbor. One who can be relied upon when calamity strikes anywhere in the world. Thank God for America!

But so have most other civilized nations including Canada with its population of 39 Millions!

[RobA_Oz]

Everyone wants to believe the best of their country - it's a big part of people's identity - even in the face of overwhelming evidence that something might be terribly wrong somewhere. Read any war biography written by a German serviceman after WW2 and you'll see what I mean.

I've believed for a long time (reinforced every time I visit) that the USA has some of the best and the worst policies and practices in the democratic world, and this is nowhere better evidenced by some of the seemingly contradictory issues talked about in this thread. The major root cause of the problem areas, though, lies with the very inward-looking bulk of the population, who determine both popular culture and the makeup of political leaderships. This is least the case in places like New York and San Francisco, from my own experience, which (not surprisingly) are the places where the US has been said to rub shoulders with the rest of the world.

If you want more case histories, perhaps a reading of Sardar and Davies' book "Why Do Peple Hate America?" will provide for some sober reflection.

[Gimbal]

There is an interesting opinion piece on CNN this morning that sums up something that many people in the world, and some on this forum, tend to forget while they rail against my country's involvement around the world. While they accuse us of imperialism and interference with other countries or just plain being "evil" they forget this one fact.

America the generous - CNN.com

The US is the clear leader in absolute numbers.
But you are also very many people, so if you divide the aid with the number of people to get aid/capita, then you will find US a lot lower on the "generosity list". So as usual, it depends on how one looks at it.

[eddie1960]

From 2002 but the numbers haven't changes a whole lot AFAIK


Country Per capita government aid Per capita private giving
Australia 14¢ 3¢
Austria 18 2
Belgium 28 2
Canada 17 2
Denmark 64 1
Finland 24 1
France 25 1
Greece 7 0.1
Germany 18 3
Ireland 28 6
Italy 11 0.2
Japan 20¢ 0.4¢
Netherlands 57 4
New Zealand 8 1
Norway 102 24
Portugal 9 0.1
Spain 11 1
Sweden 61 1
Switzerland 35 7
United Kingdom 23 2
United States 13 5

Read more: Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002 — Infoplease.com Per Capita Foreign Aid Assistance by World's Wealthiest Countries, 2002 — Infoplease.com

[dadipentak]

Bennett loves to wrap himself up in the flag doesn't he? Sure, I can sign on the general theme but I sure don't want to hear it from that mean-spirited, neo-con.SOB.

[joe.penn]

Folks need to note that the title of the thread references "America Haters"... not "AmericaN Haters."

This translates to they "hate our government and it's actions." The thing that bothers me is that this largely makes them hypocrites. They welcome and almost beg for our financial help but then actively work against our interests.

Mike, there are actually a crap ton of people living in our country; people that call our country home that match this 100% so I think this is not just for people abroad.

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Haha I can only imagine what will be posted next after posting that (not from you though Mike)...

[Just1MoreDave]

...I've believed for a long time (reinforced every time I visit) that the USA has some of the best and the worst policies and practices in the democratic world, and this is nowhere better evidenced by some of the seemingly contradictory issues talked about in this thread...

Exactly. I was thinking of one gift from the US to the world: GPS. We put it up there and everyone gets to use it for free. The other side of the coin is that we put GPS up there so we could put a cruise missile wherever we wanted in the world. If you forget about the cruise missile bit, it's a generous act that has made the world better. Hey, can we interest you in a missile defense system?