[SteveM]

Who needs Christianity when there is Zombo.com? Not helpful without sound though....

[audiobomber]

I know the time of year increases the anti-Christian rabble rousing on the boards but my question why only one religion? I rarely see attacks with such vigor against Judaism or Islam or any of the other various religions of the world. Atheists sit here and attack Christianity with full zeal but ignore all other faiths, all I am asking is why? We sit hear and hear from pagans who attack Christians for believing in a God by referring to his as someone in the sky but the next breath the comment about how their belief prays to a goddess but they can't point to her but this is considered ok because it's their belief so it's acceptable. I don't care if you hate my particular belief system but I only ask that you attack all religions with the same zeal I don't care if it's Christianity,Islam,Judaism or any other religion. That's all thanks for reading

Blame it on a backlash toward America`s Moral Majority and politicized Christian Fundamentalist movement. Islam catches flak because some radicals are causing trouble. Pagans and atheists are not a significant force in most people`s lives. Christians OTOH, are vying for power, in a country that was founded on the premise of separating church and state. My ideal of a Christian is someone who quietly enjoys their faith and sets an example of generosity and tolerance. This is radically different from the current ranting, rabble rousing, intolerant fanatics trying to hijack the American political system.

"no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

Brilliant idea, but not working in modern day America. Even a Mormon isn`t Christian enough to win the Republican nomination.

[jheu02]

Christians OTOH, are vying for power

Christians aren't vying for power... "Christians" are. The leader of Christianity stated that his followers would be "no part of the world, just as he was no part of the world" (John 17:14-16). Did we see Jesus running for office? No, he ran away when the people wanted to make him a king in this system of things. If you look at first century examples of ones who converted to Christianity, they got OUT of government positions and would NOT go to war, and were ridiculed and even killed for taking that non-mainstream stance. They peacefully tried to spread their faith, but did not force it on anyone. And then the apostasy started and we can see where it's led. The words of the Apostle Peter ring as true today as they did in the first century when some deviated from true Christianity:

"...there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them...Furthermore, many will follow their acts of loose conduct, and on account of these the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively." (2 Peter 2:1,2)

Look no further than to the actions of those claiming to be Christian, but who have disowned Jesus and what he really stood for, and you can see why many "speak abusively" of Christianity, or more correctly, what now passes as Christianity.

As an interesting side read, Jesus' parable of the wheat and the weeds (Matthew 13:24-30, explanation in verses 36-43) also foretells of the apostasy away from true Christianity.

[audiobomber]

Look no further than to the actions of those claiming to be Christian, but who have disowned Jesus and what he really stood for, and you can see why many "speak abusively" of Christianity, or more correctly, what now passes as Christianity.

I agree John, they aren't true Christians. They are the people Ghandi was speaking of when he said “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

[Ratmagiclady]

Christian - term that denotes a believer in the Bible in this complete form (no additions or subtractions) - no more, no less. Simple as that IMO.

Well, ain't this a merry Solstice among the people.....



You may find, Ash, that that ain't quite the all-purpose disclaimer you think it is, though. Any more than your claims are the panacaea you think justifies or denies everything you Christians do. Over and over, expecting a different result.



You have a book. A book you claim tells you what you say is the 'only truth.' As far as I know I *was* at least nominally-Christian in at least a few of my past lives. (How could you not, really, in this third of the world lately. ) Yes, I think that makes you both metaphysically *wrong* and I can tell you personally how messed up it gets when you don't know better than to shut-up-like-the-Christians tell you.


You're wrong about a lot of things. Things you use to hurt people. That doesn't actually make me an enemy of your 'Christ.' (That's *your* vanity,) You think it's about some kind of bibliomancy, never about humanity. You think it was extra-special for your god-son to appear and claim he'd been through the Mysteries of Demeter (Yeah, that's what a 'Christ' is, but there's a point there that has nothing to do with droning on about epistles or texts or hurting anyone over 'True Words,' ....it's about life, death, and rebirth that's been going on since way before your Judeaen rebel would-be-King said Occupy Temple Mount.' (Except he didn't even say that, did he?)


Gods know I'm no enemy of your Jesus, never mind any 'Christ.'

You kinda stole that name, too, pumped it up past the reach of any simple human till all you have is your war and demands and accusations.

Got upset and ignored me indeed when I pointed out that you claimed there was some vague uniqueness to your Jesus' underworld travels and I pointed out that at some times of year my people observe the much older 'Descent of Inanna' Which has some things to do with what you both won't look at and what means your Christian exceptionalist claims actually hold no more weight than Bill O Reilly''s War On Christmas.'

And Also mean I'm no enemy of your 'Christ' only of your ambitions and vanities.


This is the longest night of the year, and the turning toward light... As we acknowledge the deep dark, we also welcome the progress toward 'light.'

And as a cool jazz tune goes... Don't be afraid of the dark.


Blessed be if you can, cause here we go again.

[séamuis]

Christians aren't vying for power... "Christians" are.

And until those who are Christians start standing up and doing something about the "Christians" who do things in your name, you will be regarded as no different. You are all "Christians" in the eyes of those who are tired of the dominant religion in this country clearly trying to turn it into a "Christian" nation, that only cares about their own skewed beliefs.

[magkelly]

Rat, all I can say is you're missing a part of the picture here and I think maybe you're being a little unfair.

(No offense meant to you. I'm not flaming you. I'm just disagreeing with your stance a bit here. It's a little too hardline for me. I like you just fine and I think you know that. We have far more in common than not you and me. I'm just saying this is how I see it okay? I'm not meaning to start anything with you.)

I get that some Christians can be more than a little heavy handed, that being Pagan (or gay) in the wrong place can be hard sometimes, but for the most part the normal Christians I've met don't do that kind of thing anymore. Even in my ultra Bible believing town you can walk around with a pentagram on now and people won't mess with you much anymore. There are several Pagan groups here, a Buddhist temple, Hindu ones etc. People still look askance sometimes but they don't try to get them to leave anymore.

The gay vs church thing that's changing too but I still see a fair share of bigots around unfortunately and yes, many of them are still using the Bible to go there but most of them are what my Grandmother (who really was Christian in the best sense of the word) used to call "Piss poor excuses for being Christians!" people who are just talking about it, not actually walking their walk. I think the term Jeshua supposedly used was Pharisees but you get the general idea. My Grandma was a pray in the privacy of your home or quietly at church when called to, really try to love your fellow humans like Christ kind of person. She didn't believe in praying loudly in public or in persecuting people who didn't choose to be Christian. She did try to convert me as a kid, but she was polite about it and left off when I told her to quit. We got along fine she and I and that's saying something considering she was Episcopal/Catholic and I was leaning as far away from that as you could be...

The people here are evolving a little bit that way. It's been slow but it's still happening. They've read enough apparently to realize that most Pagans aren't devil worshipers and believe me it wasn't that way at all when I was growing up here. That's not to say the more fervent ones won't get upset and try to challenge and convert you. They will. But they're not as likely to throw fire bombs and nasty slurs at you as they were say 30 years ago. I have friends here who run a mainly Wiccan store and they're very well tolerated. That wasn't the case when they first opened up years ago. When something bad happened to them a few years ago because of nature having a hissy fit they got help from a lot of people, even church people relocating and getting set back up. It totally amazed me because I never thought I'd see that here Christians helping Witches. It was just awesome.

If anyone asks I'm not shy about admitting that I don't really have a religion per se but that for the most part my beliefs tend to run rather New Age/Pagan/Buddhist. Not being a Christian type I've gotten my share of Bible study invites out of doing that but it's a lot less annoying than it used to be. I still run into a rabid AOG person once in a while, but mostly people are cool about me not liking labels or messiah figures. I have known several Christian people though who have been actively messed with regarding their religion. It's not just Christian propaganda. There are people in various places who get beaten or worse just because they do cling to their religion. There's a lot of persecution going on in China right now and in the Middle East. It's not actually safe to be openly Christian in some places.

The Christian people who evangelize do annoy me and I'm not going to say they don't. I do not like when people go on missionary trips to convert people, particularly people with indigenous religions. I think they should leave the people alone to worship their ancestors or the earth or whatnot. The whole reason I don't put change in that bucket when I walk out of the grocery store at the holidays is because I don't agree with what the Salvation Army does. I think the help they give should come sans the sermons, but it usually doesn't. You want the free meal you have to listen to some preacher talk about sin, salvation and such. There's a reason they're called the Salvation Army and it's not because they run social programs for the poor. It's because while they are out there saving bodies they're also fishing for souls. It's always been their goal, do both.

That being said I have met some people who really follow their messiah, inoffensively, and I will give them their due. They're good people. They do a lot of good work in this world, they operate by example, and they don't witness and all that unless someone actually asks first. There are good ones mixed in with the radicals. It's the same as with any religion really. Some, most usually, of the people in them are perfectly sane and nice people. But in the end you will always have the radicals, the bigots, the posers and the air heads. Unfortunately they're the ones getting a lot of the attention lately. The Christian Right isn't speaking for everyone who follows the man called Christ they just think they are. Gandhi had it right, I think. Christ I actually rather like sometimes, but some of the people who profess to be following his teachings they truly baffle me and I don't particularly like them much at times.

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Last edited by magkelly; 12-23-2011 at 12:37 AM.

[Rondec]

And until those who are Christians start standing up and doing something about the "Christians" who do things in your name, you will be regarded as no different. You are all "Christians" in the eyes of those who are tired of the dominant religion in this country clearly trying to turn it into a "Christian" nation, that only cares about their own skewed beliefs.

This is a little disingenuous. There are many Christians who do speak against hate, racism, oppression, and war.

Most people of the Koran do not believe in terrorist activities of any kind. To then lay the responses of Al Qaeda at their door and claim that they are responsible to "take care of them," or else to be lumped with them is silly, yet it is the same argument.

There is much done in the name of Christ that is completely contradictory to the things he taught. It is no wonder that this leaves a bad taste in many people's mouths. At the same time, it is sad at any time of year, to attack people for their beliefs, to make fun of them, particularly when it comes to religion. As Rodney King said "Can't we all just get along?"

[Parallax]

Well, ain't this a merry Solstice among the people.....

The people are revolting!

[séamuis]

This is a little disingenuous. There are many Christians who do speak against hate, racism, oppression, and war.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not trying to say that nobody does, I'm not that ignorant. but my point is that a majority of Christians (at least in the US) do not actively speak out or condem actions that the "Christians" are increasingly commiting. A lot of people talk, sayIng things like "they aren't 'real' Christians, they dont represent christs message." but very little is actually done to at least make the rest of the public see that there is a difference. And when those "Christians" are saying that everyone else is declaring 'war' on them, it's hard to see a clear line of distinction between them. Especially if they all claim to believe the same thing.

I'm not against any Christians or any religion or faith. I believe in the idea that we all have the room and the freedom to practice what we'd like here, but one can't argue the increasing extremism with Christianity in this nation, and if Christians want to actually show there is a difference between them and "Christians", they need to be very upfront with the American people so we see. But again, since everyone claims to believe the same thing, a lot of us feel no choice but to fear everyone.

By the way I'm not an atheist, at least not anymore, I just don't practice religion. (I'm entering Buddhism).

[MRRiley]

And until those who are Christians start standing up and doing something about the "Christians" who do things in your name, you will be regarded as no different. You are all "Christians" in the eyes of those who are tired of the dominant religion in this country clearly trying to turn it into a "Christian" nation, that only cares about their own skewed beliefs.

Sounds sort of like the moderate Muslims. They have the same problem with their zealots.

Mike

[eddie1960]

I don't quite know how to respond to this, other than to be blunt; so please accept this in the lighthearted spirit in which it is intended........................
If you were more familiar with Wheatfield, his posts, and his position you would see the sarcasm dripping flowing gushing from his post.

Exactly

[Wheatfield]

Exactly

I apologize for the inaccuracy of my post. In retrospect, I don't suppose there would be any knocking on doors.

[séamuis]

Sounds sort of like the moderate Muslims. They have the same problem with their zealots.

Mike

indeed they do. no argument from me. I would say all religious followers have this problem, its just that in the US the "Christians" are currently the bigger threat. I wish that wasn't so, as I wish I could say nobody was a threat due to extremism. truth is though, the very idea of religion is an essential building block for extremism.

[eddie1960]

I apologize for the inaccuracy of my post. In retrospect, I don't suppose there would be any knocking on doors.