[interested_observer]

Here is an article about an ebay sale that went wrong. Seller (in US) ebays a violin (violin was examined and authenticated by a top luthier prior to its sale.), Buyer (in Canada) claims label is a fake disputes payment, wants his $2,500 back. evilbay directs buyer to destroy the violin in order get a refund. Violin is smashed to bits....

• From the Mailbag | Regretsy

[Adam]

And this is why paypal sucks!

[jolepp]

Barbarians.

[ducdao]

And this is why paypal sucks!

What other options do we have? Not many sellers accept major credit cards

[Jasvox]

Paypal is what it is, but in the last 10+ years I have used it, never gave me any problems. I wouldn't say it sucks. It is a for-profit service and seems to fulfill a need.

Jason

[Jasvox]

From the story:

"They somehow deemed the violin as “counterfeit” even though there is no such thing in the violin world." - This is bullshit. I worked in 2 of the largest band and orchestra shops in Georgia during the late 80's/early 90's and we saw our fair share of counterfeit violins.

I dunno if I believe the story at all. Why would a bank make a patron destroy something and send photos in order to receive a refund? Sounds like bulldust to me.

Jason

P.S $2500 is peanuts for a decent violin. Some of the comments on that story just prove how little people know, yet claim to be musicians.

[magkelly]

You know suddenly I'm not so unhappy that Pay Pal and my credit union don't seem to want to deal with each other...FYI, a doll pal of mine lost $900 in dolls to a similar farce with Pay Pal and Ebay recently. The purchaser got the dolls and the refund from Pay Pal and my friend is now out almost a grand because Pay Pal did nothing to protect her rights to a fair transaction. I wish I could tell you this is a rare thing but there have been several cases like hers the past year or two. The scam artists know that Pay Pal will give them back their money with those clauses and they are taking advantage of it a lot. Not having Pay Pal hurts me when it comes to selling. I couldn't sell anything here without it and my store is probably losing sales because of it too, but I just don't trust Pay Pal and the like anymore. Every day it seems I read about someone on my boards being scammed and Pay Pal and Ebay just allowing it to happen.

[reeftool]

From the story:

"They somehow deemed the violin as “counterfeit” even though there is no such thing in the violin world." - This is bullshit. I worked in 2 of the largest band and orchestra shops in Georgia during the late 80's/early 90's and we saw our fair share of counterfeit violins.

I dunno if I believe the story at all. Why would a bank make a patron destroy something and send photos in order to receive a refund? Sounds like bulldust to me.

Jason

P.S $2500 is peanuts for a decent violin. Some of the comments on that story just prove how little people know, yet claim to be musicians.

My daughter played violin in jr. high through high school and we paid $1500 for a scratch and dent violin at a local shop. This was in the mid 80's so I would imagine $2500 would be a bargain price on a decent violin today.

[monochrome]

In 14 years of eBay and PayPal membership as a buyer and a seller, with over 1000 unique feedbacks, I have had 2 buyer inquiries and 2 seller inquiries (by me). In all cases I or the seller immediately asked the buyer to ship the item back, tracked and insured. Upon receipt I or the seller refunded the entire cost, including the shipping both ways.

There was no need for a PayPal dispute resolution.

I suspect in this case we are not hearing the whole story. PayPal dispute resolutions are only necessary if the aggrieved party does not recieve satisfaction from the other party.

To be honest, I've had FAR MORE issues, claims, affronts and unwarranted negative feedbacks in our marketplace than I've ever had with eBay and PayPal.

[monochrome]

My daughter played violin in jr. high through high school and we paid $1500 for a scratch and dent violin at a local shop. This was in the mid 80's so I would imagine $2500 would be a bargain price on a decent violin today.

Instrumental music is mandatory through Middle School in our School District. Loaner/beater instruments are available and there is an active secondary market at local music stores.

Many of us bought a new student instrument because they had a no-faults warranty, versus the naked risk on used instruments. No matter what my children played (they all played something and continued in either Marching Band or Orchestra through High School), the student instrument cost between $2,000 and $3,000.

FWIW, Art, Music, Performance and Athletics are mandatory and the curricula are taught as a vocational prep course. Approximately 10% of each graduating class ends up in some vocation or profession realted to these courses - my daughter is an AP for a network news division. Journalism was taught under the Art curriculum as a vocational track.

[SteveM]

What other options do we have? Not many sellers accept major credit cards

If you buy/sell between Canadians, I would recommend doing an electronic bank transfer from your banks/CUs web site to the sellers bank account. It's cheap and much safer than Paypal. Paypal is cheap(er) between US based purchasers and seller but it's no deal outside of the US. They charged me nearly $200 from my last sale between currency conversion etc.

There is a huge sales pitch from Paypal regarding safety that people seem to have bought into, but if you do some homework, you'll find the reality doesn't match the sales pitch.

[JinDesu]

From the story:

"They somehow deemed the violin as “counterfeit” even though there is no such thing in the violin world." - This is bullshit. I worked in 2 of the largest band and orchestra shops in Georgia during the late 80's/early 90's and we saw our fair share of counterfeit violins.

I dunno if I believe the story at all. Why would a bank make a patron destroy something and send photos in order to receive a refund? Sounds like bulldust to me.

Jason

P.S $2500 is peanuts for a decent violin. Some of the comments on that story just prove how little people know, yet claim to be musicians.

Check the link - it's part of Paypal's terms.

[bimjo]

Well, if enough people get mad enough then there will be three words spoken that PayPal won't want to hear- Class Action Lawsuit.

Personally, if I were to sell anything of that value I'd look really hard at a thrid party to receive the item and inspect/certify it, receive funds from the buyer, and then send the item and the funds on to the respective parties. If memory serves, that was an option on eBay way back when. Could be a faulty memory chip though.

[jogiba]

Paypal Shreds Ostensibly Rare Violin Because It Cares | TechCrunch

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501465_162-57352136-501465/paypal-makes-ebay-customer-destroy-$2500-violin-seller-left-empty-handed/

PayPal ordered violin be destroyed, woman alleges - World - Canoe.ca

PayPal Orders Antique Violin Worth $2500 Destroyed | WebProNews

Did PayPal force a customer to destroy a $2,500 antique violin in order to get a refund? - mirror.co.uk

PayPal orders destruction of antique violin by buyer ? Tech Products & Geek News | Geek.com

PayPal Tells A Buyer To Destroy A $2,500 Antique Violin Instead Of Returning It For A Refund

PayPal 'Forced eBay Buyer To Destroy Antique Violin Amid Counterfeit Claims'

PayPal 'made an eBay buyer destroy' $2,500 violin after it was 'deemed counterfeit' | Mail Online

PayPal: if you don't like the violin you bought, smash it and we'll give you your money back - Boing Boing

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jan/04/paypal-buyer-destroys-violin?newsfeed=true

[bigdavephoto]

Sounds to me, the person that sold the violin has a good case to take PayPal to small clames to get the money back.

I myself have never had a problem with pp but if I would become a seller on ebay anything I sold would be shipped tracked and a signed recept required on delivery.