Bill Maher : most Americans are...

GeneV · 01-31-2012, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

They are really the exceptions to the rule though.

Absolutely. By the logic of bringing up Jobs or Gates, gee, Shaquille O'Neal, didn't finish college so we all can drop out and be superstar athletes. The vast, vast majority of us do better getting an education.

séamuis · 01-31-2012, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Probably more so about being the poster child part.

They are really the exceptions to the rule though.

I was referring to Mr. Maher actually concerning the context of the video. I actually have the utmost respect for you Bill, and there are indeed exceptions to the rule. I just think its important to highlight the real issue, and simply being 'dumb' certainly isn't it. if you watch the video, he uses dumb. stupid and ignorant, all in the same context as if they all mean the exact same thing. he is right in respect to many things and how negatively impacting that is both now and in the future, its just important to make sure we understand that what we are dealing with is ignorance in majority. not stupidity, much less the almost pointless description of 'dumb'.

I don't view formal education as a requirement for intelligence, or knowledge, and I don't judge anyone based on such criteria. it matters not, if you clearly show intelligence regardless.

stanleyk · 01-31-2012, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by jsherman999

"Dumb and Uninformed" might be a better description, or better yet, "Dumb and ill-informed."

Lots of Master's degrees being given out by the likes of Oral Roberts U, where many graduates don't "believe in" evolution, think the earth is 8000 years old, think climate change is a complete fabrication, think gay people can just change preference (or will go directly to hell,) etc, etc.

On the other hand there are folks with only high-school diplomas who are extremely well-read, are inventors, authors, computer geniuses... and understand things like evolution, the scientific method, have an accurate sense of history, and can find the continent they live in on the globe.

.

As a person who has spent most of his life working in Higher Ed. this is exactly correct.

Well....except about those dinosaurs. We all know the devil put those fossils there to try and trick people.

MRRiley · 02-01-2012, 06:26 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007 with Subtitles - YouTube

I love that clip... almost like watching a train wreck. You know you should turn away and not look but darn it, you just can't help it...

Intelligent people are not always "smart" and "smart" people are not always intelligent. One of the most intellectually brilliant men I know (a genuine "rocket scientist" who never went to college) is too stupid to stop drinking and smoking despite being a Type 1 diabetic.

I challenge Bill Maher to try to take apart the engine of his Mercedes and change a main bearing. I challenge him to properly construct a plumb exterior wall of a new house. I challenge him to properly compact a 100yd long stretch of new blacktop on his local highway construction site. I challenge him to survive for 2 days alone in the Mojave Desert in the middle of July without any external help or supplies.

There are tons of people in this country and around the world that are not educated to a wide degree, yet they do perform functions which are important to our society, and many of them perform them to perfection. Not all do of course... there are indeed many genuinely stupid people out there, but lack of "breadth" does not necessarily equal lack of "depth." Nor does it disqualify you from participating meaningfully in society.

Frankly if everyone was equally "smart" in everything, our current society would grind to a screeching halt since most of us rely upon leveraging OUR knowledge and capabilities to enable us to obtain the knowledge and capabilities of others. Of course if we were all exactly equally smart, we might not need society... but I think that would make for a pretty boring world.

IMHO, Bill Mahar is simply a self appointed uber-intellectual who has a much much higher opinion of himself than he should. I also suspect that most of his "this % of Americans believe this or that" statistics are made up off of the top of his head (just like 90% of all publicly cited statistics are...

).

Last edited by MRRiley; 02-01-2012 at 07:42 AM.

jogiba · 02-01-2012, 07:13 AM

Youtu.be

séamuis · 02-01-2012, 07:23 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

MHO, Bill Mahar is simply a self appointed uber-intellectual who has a much much higher opinion of himself than he should. I also suspect that most of his "this % of Americans believe this or that" statistics are made up off of the top of his head.

sounds pretty accurate to me. his ego would be a good match for mr. gingrich. while the points he makes in the video are important, its pretty clear that he feels his self-worth is certainly far above the average citizen. I wonder how many people in the audience who laugh at his 'wit' realize he is talking foul about and laughing at them just as much as any other american. he is intelligent in his own way, so I always try to pull quality bits of info from his show (not that I watch it on a regular basis) but to me, he is quite an egotistical dick. its funny when he attacks bill oreilly, because they both seem to be equally egotistical and full of themselves, thinking they are somehow more knowledgeable and thus more qualified to be saying anything than the rest of us peons.

MRRiley · 02-01-2012, 07:40 AM

Originally posted by jogiba

are you smarter than a 5th grader - dumb blonde american - YouTube

Fortunately for her she was smart enough to realize how ignorant she was...

GeneV · 02-01-2012, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

IMHO, Bill Mahar is simply a self appointed uber-intellectual who has a much much higher opinion of himself than he should. I also suspect that most of his "this % of Americans believe this or that" statistics are made up off of the top of his head.

Opinions vary on Bill Maher, but he is usually a stickler for his statistics and polls and constantly calls guests when they pull things from the proctologist's realm. I'd be willing to bet you a K5 (well, maybe a battery grip) that we can find those statistics from some reputable source. Education is not intelligence, and using "dumb" for "ignorant" is playing loose with the definitions. However, poll after poll after poll indicate that people believe some pretty ignorant things. It is perhaps a little "dumb" or at least "incurious" for many not to want a better understanding of the world.

Nesster · 02-01-2012, 08:21 AM

While Mr. Maher's ego no doubt is large, he's also a comedian or at least plays one on TV. The choice of 'dumb' is simply funnier than 'ignorant'.

GeneV · 02-01-2012, 08:41 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

While Mr. Maher's ego no doubt is large, he's also a comedian or at least plays one on TV. The choice of 'dumb' is simply funnier than 'ignorant'.

It may also be more easily understood by some in his audience who are ignorant.

stevewig · 02-01-2012, 08:47 AM

Maher is, amongst other things, a left-wing, populist, philosopher.
Of course if you are a person from the Right you will not like him or his opinions.
That does not make him wrong!
Too many times these days people confuse and explain difference of opinion on a topic in extremist, contemptuous terms.

GeneV · 02-01-2012, 08:49 AM

He is a human being, which by definition makes him right sometimes and wrong sometimes.

MRRiley · 02-01-2012, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by stevewig

Maher is, amongst other things, a left-wing, populist, philosopher.
Of course if you are a person from the Right you will not like him or his opinions.
That does not make him wrong!
Too many times these days people confuse and explain difference of opinion on a topic in extremist, contemptuous terms.

It does not make him right either. Like most pundits, he has an agenda and simply makes statements that support it.

stevewig · 02-01-2012, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

It does not make him right either. Like most pundits, he has an agenda and simply makes statements that support it.

As Gene said, above, sometime he's right and sometimes he's wrong - just like you and me.
That doesn't stop us from stating our opinions and nor should it!

redrockcoulee · 02-01-2012, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by mikemike

Education doesn't make you smart and being uneducated doesn't make you dumb.

There is a reason that going to university or college is formal education as you can educate yourself with TV the internet, podcasts and some thing called boks or beaks or maybe books. Being educated makes you more informed in at least the subject or subjects that you are educated in. I have never met an informed "uneducated" person who was unread. My father for example dropped out of Grade Six but did watch the news and read the newspaper everyday as well as was a huge reader of fiction. He was not dumb but there were more subjects he did not understand than his younger brothers who had university degrees but even just reading fiction requires one to use their mind. He was certainly a big supporter of advanced education even though he hated school as a kid.

I remember once trying to explain to some one in Nevada where Montana was. But then this past weekend the security guard at the Calgary Greyhound was telling a passenger that Okotoks is in BC ( it is less than 30 minutes south of Calgary). Hard to understand how people cannot know the space around them, guess as geography has always interested me (degree in physical geography) makes it harder to comprehend.

01-31-2012, 08:32 PM	#17
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Wheatfield Probably more so about being the poster child part. They are really the exceptions to the rule though. I was referring to Mr. Maher actually concerning the context of the video. I actually have the utmost respect for you Bill, and there are indeed exceptions to the rule. I just think its important to highlight the real issue, and simply being 'dumb' certainly isn't it. if you watch the video, he uses dumb. stupid and ignorant, all in the same context as if they all mean the exact same thing. he is right in respect to many things and how negatively impacting that is both now and in the future, its just important to make sure we understand that what we are dealing with is ignorance in majority. not stupidity, much less the almost pointless description of 'dumb'. I don't view formal education as a requirement for intelligence, or knowledge, and I don't judge anyone based on such criteria. it matters not, if you clearly show intelligence regardless. Last edited by séamuis; 01-31-2012 at 08:41 PM.

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01-31-2012, 08:18 PM	#16
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Wheatfield They are really the exceptions to the rule though. Absolutely. By the logic of bringing up Jobs or Gates, gee, Shaquille O'Neal, didn't finish college so we all can drop out and be superstar athletes. The vast, vast majority of us do better getting an education.

01-31-2012, 08:52 PM	#18
stanleyk Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Taylor, Texas Posts: 1,018	Originally posted by jsherman999 "Dumb and Uninformed" might be a better description, or better yet, "Dumb and ill-informed." Lots of Master's degrees being given out by the likes of Oral Roberts U, where many graduates don't "believe in" evolution, think the earth is 8000 years old, think climate change is a complete fabrication, think gay people can just change preference (or will go directly to hell,) etc, etc. On the other hand there are folks with only high-school diplomas who are extremely well-read, are inventors, authors, computer geniuses... and understand things like evolution, the scientific method, have an accurate sense of history, and can find the continent they live in on the globe. . As a person who has spent most of his life working in Higher Ed. this is exactly correct. Well....except about those dinosaurs. We all know the devil put those fossils there to try and trick people.

02-01-2012, 06:26 AM	#19
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by jogiba Miss Teen USA South Carolina 2007 with Subtitles - YouTube I love that clip... almost like watching a train wreck. You know you should turn away and not look but darn it, you just can't help it... Intelligent people are not always "smart" and "smart" people are not always intelligent. One of the most intellectually brilliant men I know (a genuine "rocket scientist" who never went to college) is too stupid to stop drinking and smoking despite being a Type 1 diabetic. I challenge Bill Maher to try to take apart the engine of his Mercedes and change a main bearing. I challenge him to properly construct a plumb exterior wall of a new house. I challenge him to properly compact a 100yd long stretch of new blacktop on his local highway construction site. I challenge him to survive for 2 days alone in the Mojave Desert in the middle of July without any external help or supplies. There are tons of people in this country and around the world that are not educated to a wide degree, yet they do perform functions which are important to our society, and many of them perform them to perfection. Not all do of course... there are indeed many genuinely stupid people out there, but lack of "breadth" does not necessarily equal lack of "depth." Nor does it disqualify you from participating meaningfully in society. Frankly if everyone was equally "smart" in everything, our current society would grind to a screeching halt since most of us rely upon leveraging OUR knowledge and capabilities to enable us to obtain the knowledge and capabilities of others. Of course if we were all exactly equally smart, we might not need society... but I think that would make for a pretty boring world. IMHO, Bill Mahar is simply a self appointed uber-intellectual who has a much much higher opinion of himself than he should. I also suspect that most of his "this % of Americans believe this or that" statistics are made up off of the top of his head (just like 90% of all publicly cited statistics are... ). Last edited by MRRiley; 02-01-2012 at 07:42 AM.

02-01-2012, 07:23 AM	#21
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by MRRiley MHO, Bill Mahar is simply a self appointed uber-intellectual who has a much much higher opinion of himself than he should. I also suspect that most of his "this % of Americans believe this or that" statistics are made up off of the top of his head. sounds pretty accurate to me. his ego would be a good match for mr. gingrich. while the points he makes in the video are important, its pretty clear that he feels his self-worth is certainly far above the average citizen. I wonder how many people in the audience who laugh at his 'wit' realize he is talking foul about and laughing at them just as much as any other american. he is intelligent in his own way, so I always try to pull quality bits of info from his show (not that I watch it on a regular basis) but to me, he is quite an egotistical dick. its funny when he attacks bill oreilly, because they both seem to be equally egotistical and full of themselves, thinking they are somehow more knowledgeable and thus more qualified to be saying anything than the rest of us peons.

02-01-2012, 07:40 AM	#22
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by jogiba are you smarter than a 5th grader - dumb blonde american - YouTube Fortunately for her she was smart enough to realize how ignorant she was...

02-01-2012, 07:46 AM	#23
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by MRRiley IMHO, Bill Mahar is simply a self appointed uber-intellectual who has a much much higher opinion of himself than he should. I also suspect that most of his "this % of Americans believe this or that" statistics are made up off of the top of his head. Opinions vary on Bill Maher, but he is usually a stickler for his statistics and polls and constantly calls guests when they pull things from the proctologist's realm. I'd be willing to bet you a K5 (well, maybe a battery grip) that we can find those statistics from some reputable source. Education is not intelligence, and using "dumb" for "ignorant" is playing loose with the definitions. However, poll after poll after poll indicate that people believe some pretty ignorant things. It is perhaps a little "dumb" or at least "incurious" for many not to want a better understanding of the world.

02-01-2012, 08:21 AM	#24
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072	While Mr. Maher's ego no doubt is large, he's also a comedian or at least plays one on TV. The choice of 'dumb' is simply funnier than 'ignorant'.

02-01-2012, 08:41 AM	#25
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Nesster While Mr. Maher's ego no doubt is large, he's also a comedian or at least plays one on TV. The choice of 'dumb' is simply funnier than 'ignorant'. It may also be more easily understood by some in his audience who are ignorant.

02-01-2012, 08:47 AM	#26
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773	Maher is, amongst other things, a left-wing, populist, philosopher. Of course if you are a person from the Right you will not like him or his opinions. That does not make him wrong! Too many times these days people confuse and explain difference of opinion on a topic in extremist, contemptuous terms.

02-01-2012, 08:49 AM	#27
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	He is a human being, which by definition makes him right sometimes and wrong sometimes.

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02-01-2012, 08:52 AM	#28
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by stevewig Maher is, amongst other things, a left-wing, populist, philosopher. Of course if you are a person from the Right you will not like him or his opinions. That does not make him wrong! Too many times these days people confuse and explain difference of opinion on a topic in extremist, contemptuous terms. It does not make him right either. Like most pundits, he has an agenda and simply makes statements that support it.

02-01-2012, 08:58 AM	#29
stevewig Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Posts: 773	Originally posted by MRRiley It does not make him right either. Like most pundits, he has an agenda and simply makes statements that support it. As Gene said, above, sometime he's right and sometimes he's wrong - just like you and me. That doesn't stop us from stating our opinions and nor should it!

02-01-2012, 03:06 PM	#30
redrockcoulee Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Medicine Hat Posts: 2,306	Originally posted by mikemike Education doesn't make you smart and being uneducated doesn't make you dumb. There is a reason that going to university or college is formal education as you can educate yourself with TV the internet, podcasts and some thing called boks or beaks or maybe books. Being educated makes you more informed in at least the subject or subjects that you are educated in. I have never met an informed "uneducated" person who was unread. My father for example dropped out of Grade Six but did watch the news and read the newspaper everyday as well as was a huge reader of fiction. He was not dumb but there were more subjects he did not understand than his younger brothers who had university degrees but even just reading fiction requires one to use their mind. He was certainly a big supporter of advanced education even though he hated school as a kid. I remember once trying to explain to some one in Nevada where Montana was. But then this past weekend the security guard at the Calgary Greyhound was telling a passenger that Okotoks is in BC ( it is less than 30 minutes south of Calgary). Hard to understand how people cannot know the space around them, guess as geography has always interested me (degree in physical geography) makes it harder to comprehend.