It's Official. K** "H"D

thibs · 01-06-2008, 02:18 AM

Originally posted by ricardobeat

You would be surprised with the quality of some Sony and other brands' camera-phones. They are comparable to any digital camera from 1/2 years ago.

And it's not a toy. Ten years ago everybody used film P&S that made images far worse than any compact digital today or even mobile phones, and I'm sure they weren't considered toys. Not everyone needs high resolution pictures, just something to remember. Your brain will always save much more detail than any picture

That's not what I saw. Sure it was surprising coming from phones but noise reduction is such that you won't find any detail there. If you need 640x480 files, why not. For everything else...

nosnoop · 01-06-2008, 02:52 AM

Originally posted by thibs

That's not what I saw. Sure it was surprising coming from phones but noise reduction is such that you won't find any detail there. If you need 640x480 files, why not. For everything else...

You can check out a few samples shot from Sony Ericsson K850i or Nokia N82 or N95. Downsize it a bit and you can get pretty decent pictures; similar to what you get from entry P&S.

roentarre · 01-06-2008, 04:26 AM

Originally posted by sir_bazz

I posted the same thing when airing my fears here a couple of weeks back.

Now I think of it as an option of hi-speed, (60fps), cropped mode shooting.

Of course I'm just speculating that the camera can be used this way. We'll all know soon enough.

bazz.

I just bought a panasonic HDC-DX1 Hi def DVD camcorder as a new toy, recording videos with the help of moderater Joele. Then if K20d is going to be a moving picture camera, I wonder what photography will become? Maybe just making movies then ... (It seems fun to make artistic videos though

)

benjikan · 01-06-2008, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by roentarre

I just bought a panasonic HDC-DX1 Hi def DVD camcorder as a new toy, recording videos with the help of moderater Joele. Then if K20d is going to be a moving picture camera, I wonder what photography will become? Maybe just making movies then ... (It seems fun to make artistic videos though

)

I doubt if that will happen for many reasons one of which is mixed flash & tungsten or HMI slow synch photography for example...

Ben

Photo Tramp · 01-06-2008, 05:37 AM

Why would you want this feature on a DSLR? I dearly hope Pentax doesn't lose their collective minds and add a feature like this on any DSLR. Sorry guys I don't think you can have the best of both worlds.

nosnoop · 01-06-2008, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Photo Tramp

Why would you want this feature on a DSLR?

But why not?
For those people who don't need the feature, you can simply ignore it. When the CMOS chip is capable of outputting the necessary frame rate for video, and all the processing engine is in place, it would simply be a software manipulation to output video onto the SD card. No extra hardware cost is necessary.

Anyways, this will be the next feature after LiveView which you may or may not like, but if it is lacking in the camera, it would be regarded as a deficiency.

Quote:

I dearly hope Pentax doesn't lose their collective minds and add a feature like this on any DSLR. Sorry guys I don't think you can have the best of both worlds.

It may not beat a dedicated Hi Def camcorder, but it may turn out to be useful for some users - and especially very attractive to those upgrading from P&S and Prosumer crowd. Those are used to having video mode in all their cameras!

jeffkrol · 01-06-2008, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by nosnoop

But why not?
For those people who don't need the feature, you can simply ignore it. When the CMOS chip is capable of outputting the necessary frame rate for video, and all the processing engine is in place, it would simply be a software manipulation to output video onto the SD card. No extra hardware cost is necessary.

Anyways, this will be the next feature after LiveView which you may or may not like, but if it is lacking in the camera, it would be regarded as a deficiency.

It may not beat a dedicated Hi Def camcorder, but it may turn out to be useful for some users - and especially very attractive to those upgrading from P&S and Prosumer crowd. Those are used to having video mode in all their cameras!

Probably the main reason this was really never done before (video in a DSLR) is, with the exception of Nikon(?) this would really cut into product sales where sony/canon sell 2 products vs 1. Pentax is not encumbered by this (If Pentax makes any strictly video cameras it is news to me). Good thing/bad thing only depends on the execution.....but again, there is no economic reason for Pentax NOT to bridge the 2....

svenka · 01-06-2008, 12:54 PM

Don't forget Pentax was one of the first to offer a hybrid photo/video camera with the Optio MX4. I wouldn't be surprised to see a video function on their DSLR's.

thibs · 01-06-2008, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by jeffkrol

Pentax is not encumbered by this (If Pentax makes any strictly video cameras it is news to me).

They have but they do not anymore...

Originally posted by svenka

Don't forget Pentax was one of the first to offer a hybrid photo/video camera with the Optio MX4. I wouldn't be surprised to see a video function on their DSLR's.

And I really never got why they didn't push the concept. That little camera was really nice with its 10X zoom and was a lot more compact than what you could imagine seing the photos of it. That same camera with 6-8Mpix, RAW and SR would be defenitely cool.

Photo Tramp · 01-06-2008, 04:23 PM

I'm going back to film. At least it's Photography. Not this new age B*** S***.
a DSLR is to mirror the 35mmSLR and the ability to take photographs Not movies.

mattdm · 01-06-2008, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Photo Tramp

I'm going back to film. At least it's Photography. Not this new age B*** S***.
a DSLR is to mirror the 35mmSLR and the ability to take photographs Not movies.

That's probably approximately what people said when the calotype replaced daguerreotypes.

svenka · 01-06-2008, 04:57 PM

No one would force you to use the video function. But the video/photo convergence is inevitable. High end pro video cameras are now using 12 Megapixel sensors and some are even made to work with SLR lenses. It just makes sense from a technological point of view. To me these are very interesting times. For some users (dare I say artists) like myself, this creates many interesting new possibilities. Let's not forget also that photos are now more seen on screens than on paper. And screens are made for animation. I'm not saying you should start doing video instead of still photography, I'm just saying there are new possibilities, clearly not fully exploited yet.

svenka · 01-06-2008, 05:13 PM

Just as an example, I use my DSLR to do timelapse photography. It's called (and is) photography, but my end "product" is a Hi-Def video file. The camera, whether still or motion, is just a tool serving my artistic purposes.

svenka · 01-06-2008, 05:22 PM

Not to mention it's already here:

Latest news
Sunday, 6 January 2008
Casio EXILIM Pro EX-F1: 60fps
CES 2008: Casio today announced its EXILIM EX-F1 - a six megapixel camera with 12x zoom and some very impressive burst shooting capabilities. Capturing up to 60 frames per second at full resolution and a staggering 1200 fps if you drop the image size to 336 x 96, this innovative camera will also shoot 1920 x 1080 Full HD movies at 60fps. Helping to ensure the moment isn't missed is a buffer system which continually updates then saves the contents to card when the shutter is released. Illumination is taken care of by a conventional strobe which works at up to 7 fps and a cellphone-style LED for 10-60 fps. The EX-F1 will be available from March 2008 priced at $999.99.
Source

Preview

TaoMaas · 01-06-2008, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Photo Tramp

I'm going back to film. At least it's Photography. Not this new age B*** S***.
a DSLR is to mirror the 35mmSLR and the ability to take photographs Not movies.

I hope you're being sarcastic. Where do you think 35mm film came from? It's just movie film shot at a slower frame rate. Really, the only difference between a movie/video camera and a motor-driven still camera is the fps rate.

01-06-2008, 05:22 PM	#59
svenka New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12	Not to mention it's already here: Latest news Sunday, 6 January 2008 Casio EXILIM Pro EX-F1: 60fps CES 2008: Casio today announced its EXILIM EX-F1 - a six megapixel camera with 12x zoom and some very impressive burst shooting capabilities. Capturing up to 60 frames per second at full resolution and a staggering 1200 fps if you drop the image size to 336 x 96, this innovative camera will also shoot 1920 x 1080 Full HD movies at 60fps. Helping to ensure the moment isn't missed is a buffer system which continually updates then saves the contents to card when the shutter is released. Illumination is taken care of by a conventional strobe which works at up to 7 fps and a cellphone-style LED for 10-60 fps. The EX-F1 will be available from March 2008 priced at $999.99. SourcePreview

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01-06-2008, 02:18 AM	#46
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by ricardobeat You would be surprised with the quality of some Sony and other brands' camera-phones. They are comparable to any digital camera from 1/2 years ago. And it's not a toy. Ten years ago everybody used film P&S that made images far worse than any compact digital today or even mobile phones, and I'm sure they weren't considered toys. Not everyone needs high resolution pictures, just something to remember. Your brain will always save much more detail than any picture That's not what I saw. Sure it was surprising coming from phones but noise reduction is such that you won't find any detail there. If you need 640x480 files, why not. For everything else...

01-06-2008, 02:52 AM	#47
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by thibs That's not what I saw. Sure it was surprising coming from phones but noise reduction is such that you won't find any detail there. If you need 640x480 files, why not. For everything else... You can check out a few samples shot from Sony Ericsson K850i or Nokia N82 or N95. Downsize it a bit and you can get pretty decent pictures; similar to what you get from entry P&S.

01-06-2008, 04:26 AM	#48
roentarre Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 11,783	Originally posted by sir_bazz I posted the same thing when airing my fears here a couple of weeks back. Now I think of it as an option of hi-speed, (60fps), cropped mode shooting. Of course I'm just speculating that the camera can be used this way. We'll all know soon enough. bazz. I just bought a panasonic HDC-DX1 Hi def DVD camcorder as a new toy, recording videos with the help of moderater Joele. Then if K20d is going to be a moving picture camera, I wonder what photography will become? Maybe just making movies then ... (It seems fun to make artistic videos though )

01-06-2008, 05:10 AM	#49
benjikan Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Paris, France Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,308	Originally posted by roentarre I just bought a panasonic HDC-DX1 Hi def DVD camcorder as a new toy, recording videos with the help of moderater Joele. Then if K20d is going to be a moving picture camera, I wonder what photography will become? Maybe just making movies then ... (It seems fun to make artistic videos though ) I doubt if that will happen for many reasons one of which is mixed flash & tungsten or HMI slow synch photography for example... Ben

01-06-2008, 05:37 AM	#50
Photo Tramp Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA. Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,041	Why would you want this feature on a DSLR? I dearly hope Pentax doesn't lose their collective minds and add a feature like this on any DSLR. Sorry guys I don't think you can have the best of both worlds.

01-06-2008, 12:05 PM	#51
nosnoop Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,299	Originally posted by Photo Tramp Why would you want this feature on a DSLR? But why not? For those people who don't need the feature, you can simply ignore it. When the CMOS chip is capable of outputting the necessary frame rate for video, and all the processing engine is in place, it would simply be a software manipulation to output video onto the SD card. No extra hardware cost is necessary. Anyways, this will be the next feature after LiveView which you may or may not like, but if it is lacking in the camera, it would be regarded as a deficiency. Quote: I dearly hope Pentax doesn't lose their collective minds and add a feature like this on any DSLR. Sorry guys I don't think you can have the best of both worlds. It may not beat a dedicated Hi Def camcorder, but it may turn out to be useful for some users - and especially very attractive to those upgrading from P&S and Prosumer crowd. Those are used to having video mode in all their cameras!

01-06-2008, 12:23 PM	#52
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by nosnoop But why not? For those people who don't need the feature, you can simply ignore it. When the CMOS chip is capable of outputting the necessary frame rate for video, and all the processing engine is in place, it would simply be a software manipulation to output video onto the SD card. No extra hardware cost is necessary. Anyways, this will be the next feature after LiveView which you may or may not like, but if it is lacking in the camera, it would be regarded as a deficiency. It may not beat a dedicated Hi Def camcorder, but it may turn out to be useful for some users - and especially very attractive to those upgrading from P&S and Prosumer crowd. Those are used to having video mode in all their cameras! Probably the main reason this was really never done before (video in a DSLR) is, with the exception of Nikon(?) this would really cut into product sales where sony/canon sell 2 products vs 1. Pentax is not encumbered by this (If Pentax makes any strictly video cameras it is news to me). Good thing/bad thing only depends on the execution.....but again, there is no economic reason for Pentax NOT to bridge the 2....

01-06-2008, 12:54 PM	#53
svenka New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12	Don't forget Pentax was one of the first to offer a hybrid photo/video camera with the Optio MX4. I wouldn't be surprised to see a video function on their DSLR's.

01-06-2008, 01:11 PM	#54
thibs Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Photos: Albums Posts: 7,001	Originally posted by jeffkrol Pentax is not encumbered by this (If Pentax makes any strictly video cameras it is news to me). They have but they do not anymore... Originally posted by svenka Don't forget Pentax was one of the first to offer a hybrid photo/video camera with the Optio MX4. I wouldn't be surprised to see a video function on their DSLR's. And I really never got why they didn't push the concept. That little camera was really nice with its 10X zoom and was a lot more compact than what you could imagine seing the photos of it. That same camera with 6-8Mpix, RAW and SR would be defenitely cool.

01-06-2008, 04:23 PM	#55
Photo Tramp Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Lancaster, PA. Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,041	I'm going back to film. At least it's Photography. Not this new age B* S*. a DSLR is to mirror the 35mmSLR and the ability to take photographs Not movies.

01-06-2008, 04:46 PM	#56
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by Photo Tramp I'm going back to film. At least it's Photography. Not this new age B* S*. a DSLR is to mirror the 35mmSLR and the ability to take photographs Not movies. That's probably approximately what people said when the calotype replaced daguerreotypes.

01-06-2008, 04:57 PM	#57
svenka New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12	No one would force you to use the video function. But the video/photo convergence is inevitable. High end pro video cameras are now using 12 Megapixel sensors and some are even made to work with SLR lenses. It just makes sense from a technological point of view. To me these are very interesting times. For some users (dare I say artists) like myself, this creates many interesting new possibilities. Let's not forget also that photos are now more seen on screens than on paper. And screens are made for animation. I'm not saying you should start doing video instead of still photography, I'm just saying there are new possibilities, clearly not fully exploited yet.

01-06-2008, 05:13 PM	#58
svenka New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12	Just as an example, I use my DSLR to do timelapse photography. It's called (and is) photography, but my end "product" is a Hi-Def video file. The camera, whether still or motion, is just a tool serving my artistic purposes.

01-06-2008, 08:19 PM	#60
TaoMaas Pentaxian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Oklahoma City Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,574	Originally posted by Photo Tramp I'm going back to film. At least it's Photography. Not this new age B* S*. a DSLR is to mirror the 35mmSLR and the ability to take photographs Not movies. I hope you're being sarcastic. Where do you think 35mm film came from? It's just movie film shot at a slower frame rate. Really, the only difference between a movie/video camera and a motor-driven still camera is the fps rate.