Married to the Brand

**rparmar** · 03-02-2012, 08:53 AM

I think the only healthy attitude to have towards corporations is one of respectful antagonism. They are out to profit from us and will, by and large, do anything to achieve that. Using the term "marriage" to refer to a capitalist relationship of producer to consumer is more than inappropriate, it strikes me as a corruption of terms.

But to attempt an answer in any case...

I prefer to reward those firms that show deep commitment to their art, despite the profit motive. This is rare enough these days! Companies who cater to such thinking inevitably charge a lot for their products, not just because they cost more when made with care, but because this sort of market is small and demands higher margins per unit. Leica springs to mind as an example.

The problem is that I don't have what most people think of as disposable income, being an artist who works mostly for free. Thus, the very firms I should be patronising are out of my financial reach.

One I can think of is the German firm RME, who make exceptional digital audio interfaces. Despite their almost prohibitive cost I have twice bought from them, since there is nothing else comparable. (This is as much due to their exemplary software as it is the robustness of their hardware.)

Likewise I am quite committed to Native Instruments Reaktor as a development and performance platform. This has led me to buy two or three of their other products, over the years. But I've ignored dozens of others, so maybe this isn't a level of dedication that qualifies for this thread.

I can't say I am as dedicated to Pentax as I might have been before they hiked their lens prices and started aiming camera systems at frivolous markets.

Basically, I buy when I find a good bargain, something that sticks out from the crowd for my own use and against my own criteria -- products that punch above their price class. My audio gear includes items from AKG, Audio Technica, Sony, Olympus, Fostex, Sennheiser, Grado, KRK, etc. with no real addiction to one or the other brand.

**monochrome** · 03-02-2012, 08:56 AM

Originally posted by boriscleto

Just three.

Apple, Pentax, and Honda.

I use Micro$oft & Adobe only out of necessity. I have used other brands of camera and lenses, but since coming back to Pentax I don't think I would use anything else. I would never own an American car.

~~Apple~~ - Pentax, Honda and Subaru. Coke Classic.

Giklab · 03-02-2012, 01:11 PM

Originally posted by daacon

Are you ?

Ipod (I have tried many others and always compare them to an ipod and always come back. This will probably be the only portable media player I will ever own)

Interesting thread, but I have to disagree here. My Ipod (nano 4th gen) doesn't come close to my phone at music playback.
As in gets <2h of playback before quitting for the day.
Ok, back on topic: The brand I couldn't go without is Pelikan. Can't beat their cartridges.

séamuis · 03-02-2012, 01:38 PM

Originally posted by rparmar

I think the only healthy attitude to have towards corporations is one of respectful antagonism. They are out to profit from us and will, by and large, do anything to achieve that. Using the term "marriage" to refer to a capitalist relationship of producer to consumer is more than inappropriate, it strikes me as a corruption of terms.

marriage by definition is nothing more than a contract between two people. im not sure how its inappropriate. if a person uses a particular brand so much to be ok with a badge of being 'married' to that brand, that usually says that there is at least some level of continued quality being offered. consumers tend to be pretty dumb, I think we can all agree, but we all know when a brand has become cheap for profit. if we stick with them, that in most cases speaks well for the brand. its opinion, but it says something.

**Ash** · 03-02-2012, 01:49 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

marriage by definition is nothing more than a contract between two people

Couldn't be further from the truth.
Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much more than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other.

But getting back to topic, the word marriage was to be used a little more loosely than any strict technical definition of the word. Consumers can be 'dumb' but that's too harsh a word to use - I consider it more like 'ignorant'. And that's OK - we can't all be photography gear gurus. Sticking with a brand for what it offers is a kind of loyalty that can be likened to a 'marriage' - I think that's what we're discussing here.

deckroid · 03-02-2012, 02:14 PM

Good question, sir.

I am not married to many things. My wife, sure, but that's only cuz she's the love of my life.

Cars/trucks, not really. Coffee, nope. Would Android/Google products count? As far as I am concerned Google/Android will rule the world one day, and I for one welcome our new overlords....

I am married to my K20D. I have tried the K-5, rented the K-x, even spent a week with a Nikon D70 and Canon Xti-something-or-other. I came back to the K20. While a camera is a camera is a camera, it's what you know, it's what you want and expect that matters. While I feel that I can always learn more about my camera, to paraphrase John Belushi, Me and my Pentax, we have an understanding.

On a side note, while I have Pentax glass dating back to the 70s as well as various other manufacturers, I gotta say I am married to my new 17-50 F2.8 EX DC OS Sigma I bought for xmas. Once you get used to it and how it works with your camera, holy schnikies, is it fine glass. If I am going to shoot within that range, I grab that lens. If I am going for longer shots, the glass I use all depends on what I am shooting, where it is, conditions and even to some extent the composition of the shot.

séamuis · 03-02-2012, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Couldn't be further from the truth.
Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much mroe than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other.

there are various definitions of the idea of matrimony, but no, marriage is by definition just a contract between people. I'm not trying to offend your sensibilities or religious values, but don't say my definition isn't truth. its fact. besides, covenant is nothing more than another word for contract in this definition.

reeftool · 03-02-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Couldn't be further from the truth.
Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much mroe than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other.

But getting back to topic, the word marriage was to be used a little more loosely than any strict technical definition of the word. Consumers can be 'dumb' but that's too harsh a word to use - I consider it more like 'ignorant'. And that's OK - we can't all be photography gear gurus. Sticking with a brand for what it offers is a kind of loyalty that can be likened to a 'marriage' - I think that's what we're discussing here.

Yeah, I agree. Marriage is a special thing although not meaning as much in modern times as it once did. Maybe that's part of the problem. We hear the term "broken marriage" a lot. Problem is, most people treat marriage like a broken consumer product and toss it aside for the next model rather than fixing it. I also think many people go into a marriage with similar expectations as a consumer purchase. Decide you don't like the camera? Return it or sell it. Don't like the wife/husband? Get it annulled or divorce. An inconvenience and hassle but nothing more in most peoples eyes today.

I like my Pentax cameras and lenses but I would put my brand loyalty on a level with my marriage. I also consider my marriage much more than a legal contract.

Rupert · 03-02-2012, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Couldn't be further from the truth.
Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much more than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other.

I know Mrs Rupert would agree, if it was just a business contract she would have dissolved the "business" long ago.......as it is, in a few weeks we will have been in this "business" together for 46 years. If it had only been a business decision I would have gone for the blond...but that's another story. Whatever we have has endured the test of time....we call it love....I guess that is not in fashion so much nowadays?

BTW- When I tried to put my little X10 on Mrs Rupert's pillow to be close to me........I came close to getting the "Business"!

Regards!

Parallax · 03-02-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

I guess that is not in fashion so much nowadays?

Sure it is, Jim. I think what gets people into trouble is when they forget the respect part of marriage. That's what seems to going out of fashion.

daacon · 03-02-2012, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by Giklab

Interesting thread, but I have to disagree here. My Ipod (nano 4th gen) doesn't come close to my phone at music playback.
As in gets <2h of playback before quitting for the day.
Ok, back on topic: The brand I couldn't go without is Pelikan. Can't beat their cartridges.

YMMV as they say I have a 3g iTouch 64gb battery is fine will last all day playing or several days hour or so at a time. Use it on the plane to watch movies ,sounds great to me, interface is slcik , but that said I have not looked at anthing else since I bought so I agree there may be better ones there now.

Clicker · 03-02-2012, 06:49 PM

I seem to drink or ask for Pepsi even travelling so if i am married to a brand it'll be Pepsi.

**rparmar** · 03-02-2012, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by séamuis

marriage by definition is nothing more than a contract between two people.

If that's all you think marriage is then that's certainly the end of this conversation!

**rparmar** · 03-02-2012, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Rupert

Whatever we have has endured the test of time....we call it love....I guess that is not in fashion so much nowadays?

Nowadays it is only the truly brave who dare to fall in love. Everyone else settles for consensual sex, contractual obligations, and other risk-free pleasures.

It is truly disgusting to see how the corporate model of exploitation has become the standard by which all relationships are judged.

Who now gives themselves as a gift expecting no return?

RioRico · 03-02-2012, 08:19 PM

Marriages of people invariably have political-religious-economic issues, issues with complex histories; discussions of such should probably move to the P&R forum. Here, we're using "married to the brand" as an exaggerated metaphor or hyperbole representing anything from satisfaction to obsession.

As I said, IMHO brand loyalty is too often a product of brainwashing, pushing us to judge the label rather than the contents -- the cover vs the book. I don't hesitate to negatively judge some makers -- I avoid Apple, McDonalds, etc, because I had sucky experiences with them. I can do better elsewhere. But I won't blindly buy a Pentax or Sony product either. I try to evaluate the individual item. So I'm not 'married' to any brand. Except maybe Comstock Editions paperbooks.

03-02-2012, 01:49 PM	#50
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by séamuis marriage by definition is nothing more than a contract between two people Couldn't be further from the truth. Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much more than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other. But getting back to topic, the word marriage was to be used a little more loosely than any strict technical definition of the word. Consumers can be 'dumb' but that's too harsh a word to use - I consider it more like 'ignorant'. And that's OK - we can't all be photography gear gurus. Sticking with a brand for what it offers is a kind of loyalty that can be likened to a 'marriage' - I think that's what we're discussing here. Last edited by Ash; 03-05-2012 at 06:06 AM.

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03-02-2012, 08:53 AM	#46
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,817	I think the only healthy attitude to have towards corporations is one of respectful antagonism. They are out to profit from us and will, by and large, do anything to achieve that. Using the term "marriage" to refer to a capitalist relationship of producer to consumer is more than inappropriate, it strikes me as a corruption of terms. But to attempt an answer in any case... I prefer to reward those firms that show deep commitment to their art, despite the profit motive. This is rare enough these days! Companies who cater to such thinking inevitably charge a lot for their products, not just because they cost more when made with care, but because this sort of market is small and demands higher margins per unit. Leica springs to mind as an example. The problem is that I don't have what most people think of as disposable income, being an artist who works mostly for free. Thus, the very firms I should be patronising are out of my financial reach. One I can think of is the German firm RME, who make exceptional digital audio interfaces. Despite their almost prohibitive cost I have twice bought from them, since there is nothing else comparable. (This is as much due to their exemplary software as it is the robustness of their hardware.) Likewise I am quite committed to Native Instruments Reaktor as a development and performance platform. This has led me to buy two or three of their other products, over the years. But I've ignored dozens of others, so maybe this isn't a level of dedication that qualifies for this thread. I can't say I am as dedicated to Pentax as I might have been before they hiked their lens prices and started aiming camera systems at frivolous markets. Basically, I buy when I find a good bargain, something that sticks out from the crowd for my own use and against my own criteria -- products that punch above their price class. My audio gear includes items from AKG, Audio Technica, Sony, Olympus, Fostex, Sennheiser, Grado, KRK, etc. with no real addiction to one or the other brand.

03-02-2012, 08:56 AM	#47
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by boriscleto Just three. Apple, Pentax, and Honda. I use Micro$oft & Adobe only out of necessity. I have used other brands of camera and lenses, but since coming back to Pentax I don't think I would use anything else. I would never own an American car. ~~Apple~~ - Pentax, Honda and Subaru. Coke Classic.

03-02-2012, 01:11 PM	#48
Giklab Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Slovenia Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,182	Originally posted by daacon Are you ? Ipod (I have tried many others and always compare them to an ipod and always come back. This will probably be the only portable media player I will ever own) Interesting thread, but I have to disagree here. My Ipod (nano 4th gen) doesn't come close to my phone at music playback. As in gets <2h of playback before quitting for the day. Ok, back on topic: The brand I couldn't go without is Pelikan. Can't beat their cartridges.

03-02-2012, 01:38 PM	#49
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by rparmar I think the only healthy attitude to have towards corporations is one of respectful antagonism. They are out to profit from us and will, by and large, do anything to achieve that. Using the term "marriage" to refer to a capitalist relationship of producer to consumer is more than inappropriate, it strikes me as a corruption of terms. marriage by definition is nothing more than a contract between two people. im not sure how its inappropriate. if a person uses a particular brand so much to be ok with a badge of being 'married' to that brand, that usually says that there is at least some level of continued quality being offered. consumers tend to be pretty dumb, I think we can all agree, but we all know when a brand has become cheap for profit. if we stick with them, that in most cases speaks well for the brand. its opinion, but it says something.

03-02-2012, 02:14 PM	#51
deckroid Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Homedale, ID Photos: Albums Posts: 80	Good question, sir. I am not married to many things. My wife, sure, but that's only cuz she's the love of my life. Cars/trucks, not really. Coffee, nope. Would Android/Google products count? As far as I am concerned Google/Android will rule the world one day, and I for one welcome our new overlords.... I am married to my K20D. I have tried the K-5, rented the K-x, even spent a week with a Nikon D70 and Canon Xti-something-or-other. I came back to the K20. While a camera is a camera is a camera, it's what you know, it's what you want and expect that matters. While I feel that I can always learn more about my camera, to paraphrase John Belushi, Me and my Pentax, we have an understanding. On a side note, while I have Pentax glass dating back to the 70s as well as various other manufacturers, I gotta say I am married to my new 17-50 F2.8 EX DC OS Sigma I bought for xmas. Once you get used to it and how it works with your camera, holy schnikies, is it fine glass. If I am going to shoot within that range, I grab that lens. If I am going for longer shots, the glass I use all depends on what I am shooting, where it is, conditions and even to some extent the composition of the shot.

03-02-2012, 02:21 PM	#52
séamuis Banned Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Savannah, U.S./Baguio City, P.H. Posts: 5,979	Originally posted by Ash Couldn't be further from the truth. Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much mroe than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other. there are various definitions of the idea of matrimony, but no, marriage is by definition just a contract between people. I'm not trying to offend your sensibilities or religious values, but don't say my definition isn't truth. its fact. besides, covenant is nothing more than another word for contract in this definition.

03-02-2012, 02:50 PM	#53
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	Originally posted by Ash Couldn't be further from the truth. Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much mroe than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other. But getting back to topic, the word marriage was to be used a little more loosely than any strict technical definition of the word. Consumers can be 'dumb' but that's too harsh a word to use - I consider it more like 'ignorant'. And that's OK - we can't all be photography gear gurus. Sticking with a brand for what it offers is a kind of loyalty that can be likened to a 'marriage' - I think that's what we're discussing here. Yeah, I agree. Marriage is a special thing although not meaning as much in modern times as it once did. Maybe that's part of the problem. We hear the term "broken marriage" a lot. Problem is, most people treat marriage like a broken consumer product and toss it aside for the next model rather than fixing it. I also think many people go into a marriage with similar expectations as a consumer purchase. Decide you don't like the camera? Return it or sell it. Don't like the wife/husband? Get it annulled or divorce. An inconvenience and hassle but nothing more in most peoples eyes today. I like my Pentax cameras and lenses but I would put my brand loyalty on a level with my marriage. I also consider my marriage much more than a legal contract.

03-02-2012, 03:19 PM	#54
Rupert Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Texas Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 25,123	Originally posted by Ash Couldn't be further from the truth. Marriage is a covenant, not merely a contract. It encompasses much more than the agreement between two people living and cooperating together. In the same way, vows on a couple's wedding day mean more than just the words iterated and repeated to each other. I know Mrs Rupert would agree, if it was just a business contract she would have dissolved the "business" long ago.......as it is, in a few weeks we will have been in this "business" together for 46 years. If it had only been a business decision I would have gone for the blond...but that's another story. Whatever we have has endured the test of time....we call it love....I guess that is not in fashion so much nowadays? BTW- When I tried to put my little X10 on Mrs Rupert's pillow to be close to me........I came close to getting the "Business"! Regards!

03-02-2012, 03:31 PM	#55
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by Rupert I guess that is not in fashion so much nowadays? Sure it is, Jim. I think what gets people into trouble is when they forget the respect part of marriage. That's what seems to going out of fashion.

03-02-2012, 04:06 PM	#56
daacon Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Alberta,Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 20,914 Original Poster	Originally posted by Giklab Interesting thread, but I have to disagree here. My Ipod (nano 4th gen) doesn't come close to my phone at music playback. As in gets <2h of playback before quitting for the day. Ok, back on topic: The brand I couldn't go without is Pelikan. Can't beat their cartridges. YMMV as they say I have a 3g iTouch 64gb battery is fine will last all day playing or several days hour or so at a time. Use it on the plane to watch movies ,sounds great to me, interface is slcik , but that said I have not looked at anthing else since I bought so I agree there may be better ones there now.

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03-02-2012, 06:49 PM	#57
Clicker Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,241	I seem to drink or ask for Pepsi even travelling so if i am married to a brand it'll be Pepsi.

03-02-2012, 07:26 PM	#58
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,817	Originally posted by séamuis marriage by definition is nothing more than a contract between two people. If that's all you think marriage is then that's certainly the end of this conversation!

03-02-2012, 07:30 PM	#59
rparmar Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,817	Originally posted by Rupert Whatever we have has endured the test of time....we call it love....I guess that is not in fashion so much nowadays? Nowadays it is only the truly brave who dare to fall in love. Everyone else settles for consensual sex, contractual obligations, and other risk-free pleasures. It is truly disgusting to see how the corporate model of exploitation has become the standard by which all relationships are judged. Who now gives themselves as a gift expecting no return?

03-02-2012, 08:19 PM	#60
RioRico Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Limbo, California Posts: 11,263	Marriages of people invariably have political-religious-economic issues, issues with complex histories; discussions of such should probably move to the P&R forum. Here, we're using "married to the brand" as an exaggerated metaphor or hyperbole representing anything from satisfaction to obsession. As I said, IMHO brand loyalty is too often a product of brainwashing, pushing us to judge the label rather than the contents -- the cover vs the book. I don't hesitate to negatively judge some makers -- I avoid Apple, McDonalds, etc, because I had sucky experiences with them. I can do better elsewhere. But I won't blindly buy a Pentax or Sony product either. I try to evaluate the individual item. So I'm not 'married' to any brand. Except maybe Comstock Editions paperbooks.