[redrockcoulee]

A bishop speaking on TV said it was not the Church's position to confront people in this type of situation and the priest should have performed the communion. Did not the Catholic Church apologize and if so why blame the daughter for going up for it? And another priest, abeit a retired one, performed the service at the cemetary hence to say that it was the Church's right is not necessarily so if the info I heard was right. Apparently it is against the Church's policy to confront and the priest did. He not they was in the wrong in this case I think.

[Ratmagiclady]

A bishop speaking on TV said it was not the Church's position to confront people in this type of situation and the priest should have performed the communion. Did not the Catholic Church apologize and if so why blame the daughter for going up for it? And another priest, abeit a retired one, performed the service at the cemetary hence to say that it was the Church's right is not necessarily so if the info I heard was right. Apparently it is against the Church's policy to confront and the priest did. He not they was in the wrong in this case I think.

'You know, when they make it about 'denying communion' like they do to politicians that don't enforce the Church's sexual control, they *totally ignore the fact* that the same priest also denied the lesbian's mother a proper burial according to their so-indispensible tradition. Over homophobia....

If this was about 'hating the sin' ....why take it out on the mother? And all that service is supposed to mean to eternal souls and the rest of the community?


This was just about hurting people cause someone wasn't straight. Despite all the prop[aganda that the political agitation against the civil rights about people like me, this is about *being* a person like me, not about 'unconfessed sins.' They don't even ask. Not even if they say 'Get in that confessional or you don't graduate' and talk sketchy, they *don't* question people like that about those wafers. This is about who someone was, taken out on her whole family.

Never mind at a funeral.

This is about someone's sense of power. And about bigotry. I mean, I experienced the old version of that 'hate the sin' long before I ever even *kissed* a girl. As for their 'sins,' No one even *asked.* Didn't stop the ill-treatment. Dehumanization. Beatings. Or terror-tactics.

(As a matter of fact, I kind of had one foot in other lifetimes, personally, and teen sexuality wasn't exactly a pressing concern to me. What would *you* gents consider ethically-comfy if you suddenly found yourself in junior high school with priests and others pontificating how 'temptational' things are supposed to be? When.. Maybe they actually aren't?)

That's why some priests hate us, you know. It's not because 'purity of heart' has the least thing to do with the damage they try and impose.... but because it's to do with anything but.

That's why they feel it must be forced. Just like anyone who treats Christian religion as a means to power over the sexuality of others, to whatever end. (Like the very primate instincts they deny, but are ruled and bewildered by. To the point they will deny everything they believe if a lesbian shows up. )

The sad part is there's no soul to be found there. Even by their own rules.

And it's out of hand.

[magkelly]

The mother wasn't left unburied. Another priest was summoned, that's all. Personally I think the first priest was a total jackarse and should have made his stance on the matter clear before he even began to participate at all. I mean why go there and humiliate this woman while she's grieving? That's just plain mean. The diocese has apologized for that much at least. I honestly do not understand why anyone who is gay would even choose to be Catholic at this point though. You might as well be back 500 years wearing a hair shirt and a scarlet "G" on your clothes. It's very masochistic. Always trying to fit into a place where they just don't accept you and never will? Ugh. What is the point? 2000 years of bigotry behind them. They're not going to change anytime soon....

[Ratmagiclady]

The mother wasn't left unburied. Another priest was summoned, that's all.

'That's all?'


Since when did Catholic clergy have a 'conscience clause' about last rites if they wanted to pronounce someone guilty by association of being related to a queer like me?

Do you know what's involved, there?

What if they *all* did, with that monolithic authority they claimed...

I've shown sick and dying Christians more consideration for their ways than they'd show a lesbian's Catholic Mom, apparently.


And WTF does it have to do with the decedent to begin with apart from someone trying to punish everyone involved cause the lezzie was there, ill-advised as it may have been of her to attempt to be Catholic?

Personally I think the first priest was a total jackarse and should have made his stance on the matter clear before he even began to participate at all. I mean why go there and humiliate this woman while she's grieving? That's just plain mean. The diocese has apologized for that much at least. I honestly do not understand why anyone who is gay would even choose to be Catholic at this point though. You might as well be back 500 years wearing a hair shirt and a scarlet "G" on your clothes. It's very masochistic. Always trying to fit into a place where they just don't accept you and never will? Ugh. What is the point? 2000 years of bigotry behind them. They're not going to change anytime soon....

Agreed. If Christians really want to 'other' us that badly, that's one thing. But again: You can kick the crap out of *me* over your theology and have it be one thing. The Pope can go Neocon and theofascist in turn all he wants and it's another.


But.

Don't you f'n *make* my mother wonder if she can have a burial or a Republican circus when her time comes just for giving birth to me. She'lll get more respect among we Pagans, come to that.


I really would shed no tears if my mother was the last Catholic in our bloodlines. But she deserves better than some wonk in a collar politicizing her funeral. I already missed my sisters' weddings over this shit. And I was hardly begging for communions. Enough.


Enough. Hurting *me* is one thing. HUrting my friends. Kiliing my freinds, is another. And it's stupid and harmful and deceitful enough on the face of it, but these are the times. Past that, though.

I don't care *how* Medici the Pope dresses, ....do not **** with my family.

---

Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-04-2012 at 12:03 AM.

[ihasa]

How this priest contrasts with the example of Jesus, who kept company with and healed 'sinners' and prostitutes without condemnation.

[MRRiley]

... Another priest was summoned, that's all. ....

I don't recall reading that another priest showed up... all the articles I read made it appear that the actual burial was performed by the funeral director.

Regardless though, the first putz was an unfeeling boob who has no business being a priest...

[redrockcoulee]

I don't recall reading that another priest showed up... all the articles I read made it appear that the actual burial was performed by the funeral director.

Regardless though, the first putz was an unfeeling boob who has no business being a priest...

The funeral director was able to find a retired priest who was at the funeral who agreed to go to the cemetery. On an interview on MSNBC Barbara Johnson thanked the funeral director for being so helpful and the priest who stepped in. I think there was also a mention of an apology from the Church and in it was the statement that it was against their policy to confront people at funerals hence the priest was out of line with their policies. I think the priest thought he was above the policies of the church as well as common decency.

[MRRiley]

Good to hear, for the family's sake, that a priest was found but it's really pathetic that the funeral directory had to do so. If anything the parish or diocese should have provided someone when Father Chicken Droppings bailed out.

[MRRiley]

Seem like there are a lot of folks hating God in this thread. God hates no one. As a Christen you are taught to be kind not to necessarily tolerate sin or deviant behavior. I don't tolerate drunks I can't stand them because of their behavior. All this rant about why this particular sinner was not forgiven. I can see only one reason for this she was not looking for forgiveness she would need to repent for that. She was looking to cause trouble. I am pretty sure if gay folks stay out of Gods house God will stay out of theirs. I will be the first to admit I am not a good Christen but it does not mean I am not a Christen.

It's not god I have a problem with per see, assuming he/she/it actually exists... It is with humans who claim to speak in his/her/it's name and who use their religion as an excuse for their own biases and bigotry.

Where do you get the idea she was just there "looking to cause trouble." Dude, she was there to participate in her mother's funeral. If you had a black father and a white mother and your mom was being buried in a southern church, would you be "looking for trouble" if you objected because the minister told you you couldn't speak because you were interracial?

Btw, drunks and gay people are not analogous...

Also, I know several religious gay people. Why should they stay out of god's house if their understanding says they should or can be there?

And if you take Leviticus so seriously, you should be giving up shellfish, avoiding planting multiple types of plants in your garden or wearing poly/cotton blend clothes.

Mike

[Ratmagiclady]

Seem like there are a lot of folks hating God in this thread. God hates no one.

I think what 'seems,' Christian, is what your bunch of hateful-talking points are meant to *tell* you 'seems.'

People calling bigotry in a church or churchman the bigotry it *is* has nothing to do with anyone 'hating your God' as you so fascistically try to flip the narrative to say.

Frankly, I was raised in the Catholic church, and that priest may have been aligned with the right-wing *punditry* and *politics* of that Church, but doing what he did was actually *against the rules of his actual priesthood on at least three counts to do,* as the Church itself sort-of-kind-of admitted-some-responsibility for that priest's actions (while of course being sure to call people 'sins' and all the usual.

As a Christen you are taught to be kind not to necessarily tolerate sin or deviant behavior. I don't tolerate drunks I can't stand them because of their behavior.

Like going to a funeral or not kneeling enough when you're beaten for not being straight before you even *kissed* a girl? For demanding equal rights under the law, not to mention freedom from the dictates of the churchmen and Religious Right that claim their 'religious freedom' involves being able to defame and abuse people and have it treated as unquestionable, unaccountable holy dictat?

All this rant about why this particular sinner was not forgiven. I can see only one reason for this she was not looking for forgiveness she would need to repent for that. She was looking to cause trouble.

By being a Catholic at her mother's funeral? It's the priest who went out of his way to call her a 'sin' for being gay, however he found out about that.


No, it was the priest who made a political statement out of the dead body of a lesbian's Mom *just cause her daughter was a lesbian.*

I am pretty sure if gay folks stay out of Gods house God will stay out of theirs. I will be the first to admit I am not a good Christen but it does not mean I am not a Christen.

[SIZE=3

But if you were 'not a good Christian' in a gay way, you'd be a troublemaker?

I dunno. Frankly, I have no particular interest in your God or your religion, and there doesnt' have to be any acrimony about it: all I ever heard from your idea of the Divine is people throwing blame and fear and demanding dominance while hurting people as 'sins' while claiming your righteousness excuses all manner of abuses. While you play the 'persecuted victims' if you aren't specially-allowed to do *bad* things like dominate others whether we kneel at your altars or not.

Happens that while I was going through rough times, (Largely because of the very stuff you defend, among other things) my own Gods found me. I feel pretty lucky that way, but I was kind of in pretty far over my young head. And all that without advertising, never mind appropriating the United States government. I used to think I was the last Pagan in the world, actually: but the point is I probably wouldn't be a Christian even if people like you or that priest *weren't* such nasty pieces of work about a lot of people who aren't actually harming you or anyone. I don't see Spirit in claiming authority out of a book and calling it 'faith' to kneel to those authority claims anyway. ) Nonetheless, if you or the churchmen want people to go found their own church, then your hatespeech applies to *their* actual religious beliefs, just like mine.

And the churchmen may find that if they do exclude all Catholics but the bigoted, and a dwindling supply of authoritarian followers of that bigotry... that they're the ones without much of a church to be buried in. It's plain to see that the more they polarize and politicize and scapegoat, the more of a mockery of themselves they become. Not to mention claiming to speak for a 'Catholic vote' in government when they *lie* about what actual Catholic voters believe and want. Even the Catholic Republicans didn't vote for Santorum, cause only a few right-wing haters like him actually even *agree* with that Church on most issues.

Kind of tragic, really, the Church will soon find out how long it lasts when it's nothing but a mouthpiece for hate, and its members only the thugs, bullies, fascists, and cowards.... Cause no one else is going to put up with the madness and abuse. Whether of themselves or others. Cause I'll tell you one thing *I* learned in 'Christian' society: I don't. Like. Bullies. But no one needs to 'hate' you, never mind your God. Your own polarization is why people keep getting angry at you when you keep harming and insulting and trying to dominate them.


Yeah, and calling a class of people 'like drunkards' and the rest is still bigotry and hate speech, even if you say you're speaking for some God when you do it.

On a lighter note this story made me think there is never a little dutch boy around when you need one, maybe she would have been happy with that instead.[/SIZE]

Oh, yeah, how 'lighthearted.' Funny ha and ha. Speaking of Catholic school, I haven't heard *that* reference to a particular slur and sexual assault *since* I was like sixteen.


Christian.


I got no quarrel with any God of yours, but say that to my face and I'll hand you back the offending finger.

[Parallax]

Stick to using logic and reasoning and stick to civil words when you are in a debate.

What an ironic statement from the Christen (sic) that made the Dutch Boy reference.

at a minimum you will be banned from the discussion

We make those decisions, not you.

[Ratmagiclady]

Huh, not sure about most of your rant other than you have a bunch of issues to deal with. Please do not threaten violence at me, at a minimum you will be banned from the discussion and if you act on the threat I would hate to be forced to have to defend myself. Stick to using logic and reasoning and stick to civil words when you are in a debate. I have stated only my opion and am not sorry you have a problem with it or a differing view point then your own. Your threat of violence shows that you have clearly lost the debate on this subject.

Yeah, yeah, you play the victim when you say boys should stick a finger in any given 'dike' and maybe she'd like it.

If you make such slurs and threats yourself, then call the response 'just a rant,' and claim 'victory and victimhood,' you've proven nothing. But that you're bigoted, self-righteous, homophobic, ignorant, and misogynist. And a whiner.

Yeah, they may teach Christianists that that's 'winning a debate,' (or loving the 'sinner,'' ) but they teach a lot of things that ain't close to true.

Go get your gold star. Must be the top of the class.

[Parallax]

That statement was surely the most hateful one in this thread, yea right..... Have a little bias there huh. Do the site sponsors support this type of one sided religous bashing? I'm calling B&H customer service todayfor another product related reason but will discuss there sponsorship of this site and its content with them then.
Good luck!

Odly enough, we don't like being threatened, either; particularly by someone who joined, apparently, just to agitate. The fact that only 2 of your 7 total posts were not confrontational and outside P&R is quite telling, actually..

Bye-Bye.

[eddie1960]

. Gays should form their own church instead of causing trouble at places of worship that they are not welcome at & seen as deviant. My faith is not as strongas others.

Aside from your other comments, this stands out as the most blindly dumb statement i've seen on the thread

She was attending her own mother's funeral. So instead of honouring her mother and having her buried in the church she believed in she should have instead joined say a gay freindly church like the united church and buried her mother there? She also (unfathomably) is still catholic herself. if the priest had issue with her lifestyle (assuming he knew about it through her mothers consultations with him) he should have stepped aside and asked another priest to oversee it. He overstepped the bounds of what even the church requires of him.

I was brought up High Anglican (catholic without the Pope and less guilt) but choose to follow no organized religion myself. If others wish to observe a religion that is their choice, but every time i see something like this it reinforces my belief that religion is the root of much of the worlds ills. In general I see most religions fomenting hatred of others at some point or another with few exceptions. My Lesbian sister who was very radical as a youth is now a Quaker, and very active in the Quaker community. Her wife, is a Professor of religious studies and also a Quaker from Georgia
their religious choice while not for me is one of the few I can show any respect for.

now to my final point. My mother was a practicing catholic most of her life (the Anglican comes from my dad's side), when she died we held a Quaker service because of all the greif my sister had suffered from the catholic church in that community. My mother knew in advance and this was her wish as well. she had come to terms with my sister and broken with the church by the that. If she had wanted the catholic burial My sister would not have attended due to the way she had been treated by them (yet in her work life on a quaker peace project she frequently deals with all faiths)

[eddie1960]

Odly enough, we don't like being threatened, either; particularly by someone who joined, apparently, just to stir things up. The fact that 5 of your only 7 posts were in P&R is quite telling, actually..

Bye-Bye.

Agreed i was going to call troll but his first 2 posts were not P&R - this is the reason i usually only participate in the P side of P&R