Barbara Johnson denied communion at mother's funeral due to sexual orientation

jogiba · 02-29-2012, 08:00 PM

Quote:

On Feb. 25, Barbara Johnson went to the funeral of her mother to mourn her loss at the St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg.

However, the memory of her mother was quickly overshadowed by the actions of the priest, Rev. Marcel Guanizo, who refused to giver her communion because she was a lesbian.

"When I arrived before him, he covered the bowl with the Euchrist with his hand," Johnson said. "He looked at me and said, 'I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman, and that is a sin in the eyes of the church.'"

The priest then left the ceremony during her eulogy, then did not attend the burial.

"I don't want to make this about the church or gay rights; it's about one priest who denied the family the proper respect owed a personal time of one's life," Larry Johnson, Barbara's brother, said.

Barbara, who has lived with her partner for 19 years, wants an apology and assurances that the priest will be removed from parish life.

Though there has been no action to remove Rev. Guarnizo, Bishop Barry Knestout of the Archdiocese of Washington sent apology letters to the family, saying that "what should have been a celebration of (your) mother's life was overshadowed by a lack of pastoral sensitivity."

Barbara Johnson denied communion at mother's funeral due to sexual orientation | WJLA.com

MRRiley · 03-01-2012, 06:28 AM

I saw a similar article this morning. The part about denying her communion is debatable, given Catholic dogma about homosexual acts being a mortal sin... but his other actions, walking out halfway through her eulogy and then bailing on the burial service (complaining of a migraine according to an article on MSNBC) are simply inexcusable.

Mike

jogiba · 03-01-2012, 06:31 AM

Lesbian Nuns: Still Immodest After All These Years | Sexuality/Gender | Religion Dispatches

I bet the Lesbian Nuns received communion.

normhead · 03-01-2012, 07:15 AM

There's the way to convince people to worship with you.

Jasvox · 03-01-2012, 09:56 AM

I have a similar story, but involves a divorcee, not a lesbian. Same thing...pastor of a church refused communion because one of the church members who was divorced brought her new boyfriend (later became her fiancee and married) to her church and the past or refused them communion as "sinners"

People, it's not Jesus and it's not God who makes these judgements here on earth, it is the wrong people for the job as the lord's spokes person. The Priest from this story and my example are just perfect examples of ridiculous and hypocritical some people are. Clearly they are in the wrong line of work.

Jason

**grhazelton** · 03-01-2012, 10:41 AM

Somehow I thought the idea was to love the sinner, even if hating the sin.

Ratmagiclady · 03-01-2012, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by grhazelton

Somehow I thought the idea was to love the sinner, even if hating the sin.

Trust me, that's a distinction without a difference. Especially in light of the Church's behavior.

If I outlive my mother, I sure wouldn't be begging for wafers, but I might call in a few markers if some priest tried to screw up *her* funeral to punish her for me existing.

This is exactly the kind of coercion that the Church tries to use to frighten families of LGBT people into abusive dynamics. Inducing terror that it's a 'sin' to have a queer kid.

Damn near destroyed my family, and I want nothing to do with the Church, but my *mother,* ...well they *owe* her.

**jheu02** · 03-02-2012, 08:58 PM

Originally posted by MRRiley

I saw a similar article this morning. The part about denying her communion is debatable, given Catholic dogma about homosexual acts being a mortal sin... but his other actions, walking out halfway through her eulogy and then bailing on the burial service (complaining of a migraine according to an article on MSNBC) are simply inexcusable.

Mike

I'd have to agree with Mike here. I have no love for the Catholic church, but the priest was in the right for refusing communion to her. But, I'd also say that the whole situation could have been avoided if she hadn't gone up for communion in the first place. Being raised Catholic, she ceratinly knew that her choice of partners wasn't "kosher" with the Catholic Church. The rest of what he did was pretty lame and inexcusable though.

I'll say I feel the church is full of hypocrasy, but that's the case with most organized religion. The priests should also follow the same rules that this one enforced, and it shouldn't be selective like seen here. So, I can see why many would be upset over his actions, but this was a situation that never had to occur. As they say, "it takes two to tango."

magkelly · 03-03-2012, 07:15 AM

The RCC's stance on not giving communion to people they see as being in "sin" is pretty much bluntly stated. While I feel for her, feel that priest was a bigot and besides had the compassion of a gnat, he was doing what his religion says he's supposed to do. She should not have tried to get communion. No offense, and for the record I don't like the RCC's stance on this kind of thing at all, but that is what he is supposed to do. That many modern priests would have had more compassion, ignored the rule, and would have given it to her anyway isn't the point, the point is the priest was doing what he's been told he's supposed to do. That rule doesn't just apply to gay people, but also to divorced people, to anyone who isn't in a state of grace, for whatever reason.

By the rules of her religion she's isn't. She's living with another woman and being an open homosexual and living with a same sex partner, not being celibate, that isn't something her so called church agrees with. I personally think she should leave and find a more tolerant church, one that would allow her communion sans the guilt, but she's chosen to be Catholic, and that means she's supposed to abide by the rules of that religion or forgo communion. You can't have it both ways. You can't just ignore the dictates of a religion you belong to and then demand to be accepted anyway.

She actually caused this situation by going up to the priest for communion when she shouldn't have. I think it was rather callous of him under the circumstances to ignore her grief and not to give it to her, but it was actually correct by the terms of his church's teachings and had he not done that he might have actually gotten called on the carpet by his bishop depending upon how lenient his diocese tends to be about such things. Personally I think he should have quietly pulled her aside and told her before the mass that he couldn't do it. Not humiliated her in public like that, but he wasn't actually out out bounds denying her communion just completely tactless in how he went about it.

JohnBee · 03-03-2012, 07:51 AM

Originally posted by grhazelton

Somehow I thought the idea was to love the sinner, even if hating the sin.

Who says she wasn't loved?
When parents discipline their children do they not love them?

GeneV · 03-03-2012, 08:50 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

I have a similar story, but involves a divorcee, not a lesbian. Same thing...pastor of a church refused communion because one of the church members who was divorced brought her new boyfriend (later became her fiancee and married) to her church and the past or refused them communion as "sinners"

People, it's not Jesus and it's not God who makes these judgements here on earth, it is the wrong people for the job as the lord's spokes person. The Priest from this story and my example are just perfect examples of ridiculous and hypocritical some people are. Clearly they are in the wrong line of work.

Jason

I've walked in these shoes a bit myself, being Christian and married to a Jewish woman. It is no fun.

Ratmagiclady · 03-03-2012, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by magkelly

The RCC's stance on not giving communion to people they see as being in "sin" is pretty much bluntly stated. While I feel for her, feel that priest was a bigot and besides had the compassion of a gnat, he was doing what his religion says he's supposed to do. She should not have tried to get communion.

Actually, that's not necessarily so: all double-standards aside, theologically, if not politically, lesbians aren't supposed to have unconfessed sins just for being lesbians. Nor is it a priest's place to accuse unless he knows. Especially by that whole 'only hate the sin' spin.

And there being more to the story, the priest denied the lesbian's *mother* a proper burial according to that tradition, for having a lesbian daughter.

Just the kind of terror that leads to Catholic people trying to beat the queer out of their kids, while everyone say, 'Well, they 'are' 'sin.'

But there's no indication the mother denied a burial service was queer. Or 'sinned.'

Ratmagiclady · 03-03-2012, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by JohnBee

Who says she wasn't loved?
When parents discipline their children do they not love them?

I don't care *what* you think your God thinks of me not being straight, and I wouldn't be in that church to begin with. ...but if you messed with my Catholic Mom's burial services, you got a problem from all quarters.

This priest didn't just refuse communion like the churchmen do to Democratic candidates for publicity: he actually left the decedent unburied, and hurt a whole family in their grieving, which is a bad and undeserved thing even by his own rules.

slackercruster · 03-03-2012, 06:37 PM

Don't know anything about it. But religions can choose how they run.

Ratmagiclady · 03-03-2012, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by slackercruster

Don't know anything about it. But religions can choose how they run.

And if they choose bigotry and cruelty to the grieving... That's their choice too. They must be so proud. I'm sure they won't mind us telling about it. Right?

02-29-2012, 08:00 PM	#1
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491	Barbara Johnson denied communion at mother's funeral due to sexual orientation Quote: On Feb. 25, Barbara Johnson went to the funeral of her mother to mourn her loss at the St. John Neumann Catholic Church in Gaithersburg. However, the memory of her mother was quickly overshadowed by the actions of the priest, Rev. Marcel Guanizo, who refused to giver her communion because she was a lesbian. "When I arrived before him, he covered the bowl with the Euchrist with his hand," Johnson said. "He looked at me and said, 'I cannot give you communion because you live with a woman, and that is a sin in the eyes of the church.'" The priest then left the ceremony during her eulogy, then did not attend the burial. "I don't want to make this about the church or gay rights; it's about one priest who denied the family the proper respect owed a personal time of one's life," Larry Johnson, Barbara's brother, said. Barbara, who has lived with her partner for 19 years, wants an apology and assurances that the priest will be removed from parish life. Though there has been no action to remove Rev. Guarnizo, Bishop Barry Knestout of the Archdiocese of Washington sent apology letters to the family, saying that "what should have been a celebration of (your) mother's life was overshadowed by a lack of pastoral sensitivity." Barbara Johnson denied communion at mother's funeral due to sexual orientation \| WJLA.com

03-01-2012, 06:31 AM	#3
jogiba Banned Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Millstone,NJ Posts: 6,491 Original Poster	Lesbian Nuns: Still Immodest After All These Years Lesbian Nuns: Still Immodest After All These Years \| Sexuality/Gender \| Religion Dispatches I bet the Lesbian Nuns received communion. Last edited by jogiba; 03-01-2012 at 11:18 AM.

03-02-2012, 08:58 PM	#8
jheu02 Site Supporter Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: North Carolina Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,027	Originally posted by MRRiley I saw a similar article this morning. The part about denying her communion is debatable, given Catholic dogma about homosexual acts being a mortal sin... but his other actions, walking out halfway through her eulogy and then bailing on the burial service (complaining of a migraine according to an article on MSNBC) are simply inexcusable. Mike I'd have to agree with Mike here. I have no love for the Catholic church, but the priest was in the right for refusing communion to her. But, I'd also say that the whole situation could have been avoided if she hadn't gone up for communion in the first place. Being raised Catholic, she ceratinly knew that her choice of partners wasn't "kosher" with the Catholic Church. The rest of what he did was pretty lame and inexcusable though. I'll say I feel the church is full of hypocrasy, but that's the case with most organized religion. The priests should also follow the same rules that this one enforced, and it shouldn't be selective like seen here. So, I can see why many would be upset over his actions, but this was a situation that never had to occur. As they say, "it takes two to tango." Last edited by jheu02; 03-02-2012 at 09:10 PM.

03-03-2012, 06:37 PM	#13
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by JohnBee Who says she wasn't loved? When parents discipline their children do they not love them? I don't care what you think your God thinks of me not being straight, and I wouldn't be in that church to begin with. ...but if you messed with my Catholic Mom's burial services, you got a problem from all quarters. This priest didn't just refuse communion like the churchmen do to Democratic candidates for publicity: he actually left the decedent unburied, and hurt a whole family in their grieving, which is a bad and undeserved thing even by his own rules. Last edited by Ratmagiclady; 03-03-2012 at 06:43 PM.

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03-01-2012, 06:28 AM	#2
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	I saw a similar article this morning. The part about denying her communion is debatable, given Catholic dogma about homosexual acts being a mortal sin... but his other actions, walking out halfway through her eulogy and then bailing on the burial service (complaining of a migraine according to an article on MSNBC) are simply inexcusable. Mike

03-01-2012, 07:15 AM	#4
normhead Pentaxian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Near Algonquin Park Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 40,450	There's the way to convince people to worship with you.

03-01-2012, 09:56 AM	#5
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	I have a similar story, but involves a divorcee, not a lesbian. Same thing...pastor of a church refused communion because one of the church members who was divorced brought her new boyfriend (later became her fiancee and married) to her church and the past or refused them communion as "sinners" People, it's not Jesus and it's not God who makes these judgements here on earth, it is the wrong people for the job as the lord's spokes person. The Priest from this story and my example are just perfect examples of ridiculous and hypocritical some people are. Clearly they are in the wrong line of work. Jason

03-01-2012, 10:41 AM	#6
grhazelton Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Jonesboro, GA Photos: Albums Posts: 1,972	Somehow I thought the idea was to love the sinner, even if hating the sin.

03-01-2012, 12:19 PM	#7
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by grhazelton Somehow I thought the idea was to love the sinner, even if hating the sin. Trust me, that's a distinction without a difference. Especially in light of the Church's behavior. If I outlive my mother, I sure wouldn't be begging for wafers, but I might call in a few markers if some priest tried to screw up her funeral to punish her for me existing. This is exactly the kind of coercion that the Church tries to use to frighten families of LGBT people into abusive dynamics. Inducing terror that it's a 'sin' to have a queer kid. Damn near destroyed my family, and I want nothing to do with the Church, but my mother, ...well they owe her.

03-03-2012, 07:15 AM	#9
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	The RCC's stance on not giving communion to people they see as being in "sin" is pretty much bluntly stated. While I feel for her, feel that priest was a bigot and besides had the compassion of a gnat, he was doing what his religion says he's supposed to do. She should not have tried to get communion. No offense, and for the record I don't like the RCC's stance on this kind of thing at all, but that is what he is supposed to do. That many modern priests would have had more compassion, ignored the rule, and would have given it to her anyway isn't the point, the point is the priest was doing what he's been told he's supposed to do. That rule doesn't just apply to gay people, but also to divorced people, to anyone who isn't in a state of grace, for whatever reason. By the rules of her religion she's isn't. She's living with another woman and being an open homosexual and living with a same sex partner, not being celibate, that isn't something her so called church agrees with. I personally think she should leave and find a more tolerant church, one that would allow her communion sans the guilt, but she's chosen to be Catholic, and that means she's supposed to abide by the rules of that religion or forgo communion. You can't have it both ways. You can't just ignore the dictates of a religion you belong to and then demand to be accepted anyway. She actually caused this situation by going up to the priest for communion when she shouldn't have. I think it was rather callous of him under the circumstances to ignore her grief and not to give it to her, but it was actually correct by the terms of his church's teachings and had he not done that he might have actually gotten called on the carpet by his bishop depending upon how lenient his diocese tends to be about such things. Personally I think he should have quietly pulled her aside and told her before the mass that he couldn't do it. Not humiliated her in public like that, but he wasn't actually out out bounds denying her communion just completely tactless in how he went about it.

03-03-2012, 07:51 AM	#10
JohnBee Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Newrfoundland Photos: Albums Posts: 4,667	Originally posted by grhazelton Somehow I thought the idea was to love the sinner, even if hating the sin. Who says she wasn't loved? When parents discipline their children do they not love them?

03-03-2012, 08:50 AM	#11
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Jasvox I have a similar story, but involves a divorcee, not a lesbian. Same thing...pastor of a church refused communion because one of the church members who was divorced brought her new boyfriend (later became her fiancee and married) to her church and the past or refused them communion as "sinners" People, it's not Jesus and it's not God who makes these judgements here on earth, it is the wrong people for the job as the lord's spokes person. The Priest from this story and my example are just perfect examples of ridiculous and hypocritical some people are. Clearly they are in the wrong line of work. Jason I've walked in these shoes a bit myself, being Christian and married to a Jewish woman. It is no fun.

03-03-2012, 06:35 PM	#12
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by magkelly The RCC's stance on not giving communion to people they see as being in "sin" is pretty much bluntly stated. While I feel for her, feel that priest was a bigot and besides had the compassion of a gnat, he was doing what his religion says he's supposed to do. She should not have tried to get communion. Actually, that's not necessarily so: all double-standards aside, theologically, if not politically, lesbians aren't supposed to have unconfessed sins just for being lesbians. Nor is it a priest's place to accuse unless he knows. Especially by that whole 'only hate the sin' spin. And there being more to the story, the priest denied the lesbian's mother a proper burial according to that tradition, for having a lesbian daughter. Just the kind of terror that leads to Catholic people trying to beat the queer out of their kids, while everyone say, 'Well, they 'are' 'sin.' But there's no indication the mother denied a burial service was queer. Or 'sinned.'

03-03-2012, 06:37 PM	#14
slackercruster Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: NE, USA Posts: 1,302	Don't know anything about it. But religions can choose how they run.

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03-03-2012, 06:46 PM	#15
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by slackercruster Don't know anything about it. But religions can choose how they run. And if they choose bigotry and cruelty to the grieving... That's their choice too. They must be so proud. I'm sure they won't mind us telling about it. Right?