[Ratmagiclady]

President Obama has parents of Caucasian ancestry and Black/African ancestry. It could be argued that anyone who sees him as black is racist.
Is he our first black president; or is he our first white president with first generation black ancestry?
During the slavery era, anyone who had any negro (parlance of the times) blood was a negro and subject to slavery. Isn't referring to President Obama as Black, or African American, continuing that racist view?
Just sayin' ..........

Considering our President *lived* in that racist view, and which still exists, (As evidenced by how the conservatives treat him,) I think the burden's not on *him* to start claiming to be 'white.'

He's also a great partially-Irish President, and I'm proud of that, too. It doesn't come up much, but like a lot of Irish people, I heard that and was like, 'Ooh, is he kin?' I guess it's kind of an Irish thing. (It's not about 'superiority,' it's just a cultural thing, I guess. I'm not even the best genealogist in my family, but it's a sort of connection that isn't about the race-politics of Southern Baptists or whatever. That's the very thing 'race' politics intend to divide people over. )

It's certain others trying to claim he's a 'Kenyan Muslim' who have problems with that. Or call his mother a 'slut' for not being racist.

[Parallax]

Considering our President *lived* in that racist view, and which still exists, (As evidenced by how the conservatives treat him,) I think the burden's not on *him* to start claiming to be 'white.'

Absolutely right. The burden's on everybody else to forget about it; get over it.

[Ratmagiclady]

Absolutely right. The burden's on everybody else to forget about it; get over it.

Frankly, it's not that simple when measured in human lifetimes. If this became the most tolerant and 'LGBT-blind' society today, it still wouldn't mean I was on a level playing field. To ignore the shitstorms I went through would simply mean people saying, 'Why weren't you in some successful career all along,' ...and to claim the President didn't live through being a child of interracial marriage considered to be 'foreign' and 'abominable' wouldn't explain how he and the policies we voted him in for are treated like some 'Foreign enemy.'

Trust me, from being me in the South, ...America is *not* 'over it.'

We may be puzzled, many of us, why this is so, but the reality is not the picture of 'Over It.'

Just like with the social issues that did me so much wrong, if someone *handed* me the kind of job that I should have hoped for when I was twenty, (Which wouldn't happen: if people suddenly became 'bigotry-blind,' there'd be no excuse for me to have that gap in my credit and employment record.)

Privileged people think this is all about *them* growing 'tolerance' when they're ready, then denying what they did had effects, claiming to be 'redeemed' or whatever, (even while continuing to do more and worse, but even if they don't.) ...There's nothing that's going to make me nineteen years old again, right now.

If this became the most egalitarian view of capitalism in the world *right now* ... It wouldn't suddenly make what I went through go away.


If someone un f***ed my *body* *right now,* even ....they still wouldn't hire me at Checkers. Not even cause of any bigotry or anything.... Just cause I *was* destitute so many years. Cause I don't fit in their little corporate forms. That's why my only hope is self-employment.

Even if you wanted to hire someone for your bike shop right now, who would you go with, an able-bodied young kid up on all the latest stuff, or me, with crap for an employment record and a lot of 'I'll remember how to repack this bottom bracket when I see it, I forget what it's called?'

Some things can't be undone, especially not in this world of info-control.

Get it?

[Parallax]

Trust me, from being me in the South, ...America is *not* 'over it.'

That's why I stated in the future tense. Yes, I get it.
With regard to predjudices, there are only two types of people in the world. There are those who are racially and in other ways) prejudiced and admit it (if only to themselves); and those who who lie (to themselves and/or others) by claiming they aren't. What people think is irrelevant. It's what they say and do that matters.
Given your past history, and from things you have said, it's pretty clear that with good reason you don't trust men; but I'll bet you when you meet someone new you don't immediately start telling him what a scum-bag he is. My guess is you graciously say "hello".

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Last edited by Parallax; 03-01-2012 at 02:20 PM.

[Ratmagiclady]

That's why I stated in the future tense. Yes, I get it.
With regard to racism, there are only two types of people in the world. There are those who are racially prejudiced and admit it (if only to themselves); and those who who lie (to themselves and/or others) by claiming they aren't.

I do think that assumes that 'race' is an actual 'thing,' you know? Yes, our President is black. Yes, our President may possibly be kin to me, (I didn't actually look that hard) ....me being somewhat melanin-challenged. It doesn't mean any of these things aren't socially-real, never mind that the ongoing effects can be ignored, yet.

Repackaged or re-spun or not, the cons are pushing *racism.* Period.

That's not on the rest of us to absorb blame for. Denial it's happening is no better than complicity, though.

[Wheatfield]

Call me insensitive if you want, but I'm not seeing the joke as especially racist.
In poor taste, yes, since it denigrates Obama's mother, but racist, not so much, since it really doesn't say anything in particular about Obama.
Technically, racist would have to mock him for his skin colour, which this joke doesn't do.
If the punch line was more along the lines of "because I screwed a Rottweiler that night" would be closer to racist (well, actually really racist) because we have now brought colour into the answer (as well as another slur).

[GeneV]

Call me insensitive if you want, but I'm not seeing the joke as especially racist.
In poor taste, yes, since it denigrates Obama's mother, but racist, not so much, since it really doesn't say anything in particular about Obama.
Technically, racist would have to mock him for his skin colour, which this joke doesn't do.
If the punch line was more along the lines of "because I screwed a Rottweiler that night" would be closer to racist (well, actually really racist) because we have now brought colour into the answer (as well as another slur).

Who could call you insensitive?

I think it is pretty racist. The child asks why he is black and his mother is white. The mother indicates he is lucky he isn't a dog, implying his race is bad, but it could have been worse.

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Last edited by GeneV; 03-01-2012 at 04:10 PM.

[Ratmagiclady]

That's why I stated in the future tense. Yes, I get it.
With regard to predjudices, there are only two types of people in the world. There are those who are racially and in other ways) prejudiced and admit it (if only to themselves); and those who who lie (to themselves and/or others) by claiming they aren't. What people think is irrelevant. It's what they say and do that matters.

The point there is that privileged people suddenly deciding to call themselves 'enlightened' or 'minority-blind,' doesn't actually undo decades of what happened before they patted themselves on the back for it. Then said, 'Why should we not consider your drive for equality an attack on our privilege?'

Given your past history, and from things you have said, it's pretty clear that with good reason you don't trust men; but I'll bet you when you meet someone new you don't immediately start telling him what a scum-bag he is. My guess is you graciously say "hello".

Actually, that's another prejudice, to say, 'RML doesn't trust men.' Actually, I can, do, and have trusted men with my *life.* In combat and potential combat and all the other vulnerabilities that aren't so dramatic.

Don't make me being queer and hurt about something it isn't., Jim. Actually, I habitually trust a lot of men with a great deal. (But not without reason) It's not about 'trusting or not trusting men. ' It's far more individual. Even if it's who I trust with, 'OK, we roll, go right.' ...never mind my female partners, who've often said without great misconception: 'Will you ever feel safe.'



I may not. in this life. But. f** me if that's cause of too broad of definitions at this point.

[Wheatfield]

Who could call you insensitive?

I think it is pretty racist. The child asks why he is black and his mother is white. The mother indicates he is lucky he isn't a dog, implying his race is bad, but it could have been worse.

I guess anything can be made racist if one applies the optics they want. My wife (who is far better educated than I) sees the joke as a real slam against Obama's mother, who would apparently mate with anything.
Or it may just be that we are both fairly insensitive people, I guess.

[Ratmagiclady]

Call me insensitive if you want, but I'm not seeing the joke as especially racist.
In poor taste, yes, since it denigrates Obama's mother, but racist, not so much, since it really doesn't say anything in particular about Obama.
Technically, racist would have to mock him for his skin colour, which this joke doesn't do.
If the punch line was more along the lines of "because I screwed a Rottweiler that night" would be closer to racist (well, actually really racist) because we have now brought colour into the answer (as well as another slur).

Dude. You're from Canada. You're missing a *lot* if that's your thesis.

But, yes, the Right here would rather insult Obama's momma than examine their own bigotries. This we know.


And, Lady love you, Wheatfield, if it really is that much a matter of abstract diction to you, but this is not how the world is yet. Surely not here, where I have no f'n civil rights to speak of. Uncannily 'white' as I may be.I mean, hey, I'm so 'white' you can see my metacarpals if I hold my hand up to a 250 watt floodlight. Still a 'paddy' to racists, but pretty much transparent to most EM radiation. I've got freckles with more melanin than the rest of my body. They still l treat me like a freakin' alien, insist I wasn't 'born this way,' ....I'm presently enhoying the three weeks out of a year when I can go outside without a *hat, * but no matter how ghastly-pale I appear, they don't try to claim I wasn't born *here.* Cause I'm white. Really, really, white. Dig?