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10-14-2012, 03:34 PM   #16
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It's a good thing that we have youtube. Without it, we'd never know the truth.

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10-14-2012, 03:39 PM - 1 Like   #17
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President Obama is making an appearance with Bruce Springsteen this week. Proof that he is Born in the USA!
10-14-2012, 03:56 PM   #18
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QuoteQuote:
The fact that it is rather obviously fabricated does not prove, of course, that a real one never existed, but things like this seem to be SOP with this administration.
What fact? That has yet to be established. As I said, some dweeb who thinks he knows illustrator making a case for fabrication doesn't make something a fact. His work needs to be checked by someone credible who can corroborate it. There is a way to do these things. All this proves so far is that he's good enough at fabricating evidence to fool a lot of people. Until you have independent third party corroboration, you have nothing. You really think the Repubs wouldn't have a million court cases already if there was a shred of truth to this?
10-14-2012, 07:03 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Who cares.. After the "fake" WMD's.. loss of personal liberties w/ the "Patriot Act" (worst name EVER) and continuation of the "emergency powers" there are MORE IMPORTANT things to discuss..

Tell me again how "Mittens" will fix this "stuff"???

All I here is crickets.. chirp chirp.. or sabres rattling..........


The Christian Century, Volume 53, Feb 5, 1936, p 245
Throw in the Mormon "Bible" and all is complete.............Theocracy.........
"Who cares?" Hmm. Well, thanks for the spin, and your non-related quote, anyway.

QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
What fact? That has yet to be established. As I said, some dweeb who thinks he knows illustrator making a case for fabrication doesn't make something a fact. His work needs to be checked by someone credible who can corroborate it. There is a way to do these things. All this proves so far is that he's good enough at fabricating evidence to fool a lot of people. Until you have independent third party corroboration, you have nothing. You really think the Repubs wouldn't have a million court cases already if there was a shred of truth to this?
I suspect that you didn't bother to watch it? Illustrator isn't rocket science, really. No worries, perhaps you've never worked with the software, and/or have your mind made up. You are assuming that the author is quite cleverly fabricating the evidence. With the responses I see in this thread (not referring to yours), is there any utility in posting all the previously published critiques of the document? Probably not. I just had never seen this strait forward and simple PDF analysis before, and thought someone might have a reasoned response to it here.

10-14-2012, 07:26 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
I'd like to see how a Democrat here will debunk the analysis in the vids above. Looks pretty damming on the face of it, being somewhat familiar with this software. Why fake the document?
I am not a democrat or republican, but I find it highly unlikely that the document was faked. There are a ton of Republicans that want Obama out of office (I would guess about 30% of the country). In addition to this, about half of democrats preferred Hillary Clinton to Obama in the primary (I am sure she would have been more than happy to call Obama out on this). I find it hard to believe that an Illinois senator would have enough clout to lead a coverup operation of the scale needed to fake his birthplace.

Did the moon landing happen? There are a lot of people who could provide amateur evidence that it was faked. When you go and talk to an expert, they will debunk these "facts" on by one. If Obama's birth certificate is a fake, I am sure there are plenty of republican and independent experts that would love to call him out on it. I am sure there are media outlets that would entertain their analysis. Instead, all we have is an amateur analysis from a person who does not like Obama, Donald Trump, and some sheriff. Until a group of experts weighs in, it is like saying we did not land on the moon.

This is why everybody is ignoring the video. I am ignoring it because my computer does not have sound at the moment (joys of 8 year old laptop )

Last edited by kswier; 10-14-2012 at 07:33 PM.
10-14-2012, 09:40 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by shiner Quote
"Who cares?" Hmm. Well, thanks for the spin, and your non-related quote, anyway.


you mean like your "selective" support of the Constitution or principles???? You do realize Iraq was a war of aggression making Bush and Cheney war criminals.. Where was your "outrage" then????

As to being related.. The Constitution was shredded a long time ago therefore "who cares" where a president or candidate was born...

QuoteQuote:
It is time to set the record straight. The United States Congress never voted for the Iraq war. Rather, Congress voted for a resolution in October 2002 which unlawfully transferred to the president the decision-making power of whether to launch a first-strike invasion of Iraq. The United States Constitution vests the awesome power of deciding whether to send the nation into war solely in the United States Congress.

Those members of Congress -- including certain Democratic presidential candidates -- who voted for that October resolution cannot now claim that they were deceived, as some of them do. By unlawfully ceding the war-declaring power to the president, they allowed the president to start a war against Iraq based on whatever evidence or whatever lies he chose. The members of Congress who voted for that October resolution are as complicit in this illegal war as is the president himself.
http://www.monitor.net/monitor/0402a/iraqwarunconstitutional.html
you reap what you sow..........so to speak.. Hypocrites...
QuoteQuote:
Several years after the adoption of the Constitution, James Madison would write: "In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found, than in the clause which confides the question of war and peace to the legislature, and not to the executive department."

Some might ask how George W. Bush's war against Iraq is different from other U.S wars. Congress has not declared war since World War II. While some of the U.S. military actions since that time have received the equivalent of a congressional declaration, others have not. There have been other violations of the War Powers Clause of the Constitution.

But today we face an extraordinary moment in United States history. The president of the United States launched a premeditated, first-strike invasion of another country, the likes of which this nation has never before seen. This massive military operation sought to conquer and occupy Iraq for an indefinite period of time. This was not a random act of raw power. It was the first salvo of a new and dangerous U.S. doctrine, a doctrine which advocates the unprovoked invasion and occupation of sovereign nations. This new doctrine threatens to destabilize the world, creating a new world order of chaos and lawlessness.

Now more than ever, the Constitution and the rule of law must apply. And, now more than ever, the truth must be told. The first lie about the Iraq war was not that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction or ties to Al Qaeda. The first lie told to the American people is that Congress voted for this war.

In the midst of the rushed congressional debate in October 2002, U.S. Sen. Robert C. Byrd (D-W. Virginia) warned that the resolution under consideration was unconstitutional. "We are handing this over to the President of the United States," Byrd said. "When we do that, we can put up a sign on the top of this Capitol, and we can say: 'Gone home. Gone fishing. Out of business.'" Byrd added: "I never thought I would see the day in these forty-four years I have been in this body... when we would cede this kind of power to any president."

The Iraq war is in direct violation of the United States Constitution. The president and the members of Congress who voted for that October resolution should be held accountable for sending this nation into an illegal war.

It is time to hold up the Constitution to the faces of those who dare to defy it. It is time to demand our country back.
Feel free to prove this wrong.. Maybe using "Illustrator".....

Sadly funny..............
QuoteQuote:
Attorneys representing a veteran and two mothers of soldiers are asking a federal court to declare the Iraq war unconstitutional.
They said in court Tuesday that former President George W. Bush overstepped his constitutional authority to invade Iraq in 2003 without Congress officially declaring war.
They say that wasn't the intent of the country's "founding fathers" who wrote the constitution more than 200 years ago.
The government argued that courts do not have authority to rule on a political matter.


Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,517344,00.html#ixzz29L8vmAqs

Last edited by jeffkrol; 10-14-2012 at 09:48 PM.
10-15-2012, 05:11 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
As to being related.. The Constitution was shredded a long time ago therefore "who cares" where a president or candidate was born...
It really doesn't matter where Barack Obama was born. His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was an American citizen. That makes him a natural born citizen regardless of birthplace. That is what makes all this Birtherism such nonsense.
10-15-2012, 05:47 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by boriscleto Quote
It really doesn't matter where Barack Obama was born. His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham, was an American citizen. That makes him a natural born citizen regardless of birthplace. That is what makes all this Birtherism such nonsense.
I agree.. but I just like to point out IF by some metric you could say Obama was not a "citizen" the whining about it in comparison to the silence on Baby Bush war crimes (and Anti-constitutionalism) is one of THE most hypocritical acts one can do..................
Weigh up the cost analysis. Bush loses by MILES..........

10-15-2012, 07:02 AM   #24
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QuoteQuote:
I suspect that you didn't bother to watch it? Illustrator isn't rocket science, really. No worries, perhaps you've never worked with the software, and/or have your mind made up. You are assuming that the author is quite cleverly fabricating the evidence. With the responses I see in this thread (not referring to yours), is there any utility in posting all the previously published critiques of the document? Probably not. I just had never seen this strait forward and simple PDF analysis before, and thought someone might have a reasoned response to it here.
Listen , up, you're missing hte point. Never worked with Illustrator? I taught illustrator, and from my days working with a 6502, I've coded software in machine language. But anyway, here is something you might want to consider...
QuoteQuote:
is there any utility in posting all the previously published critiques of the document
In many court cases, one side lines up their witnesses and the other lines up theirs, and everyone write their opinion and the court decides who is right. Volume of evidence does not qualify as proof. Only accuracy of evidence counts as proof. You can have the police and prosecutors present all kinds of records, emails suggesting a guy killed his wife including eye witness accounts that they saw him do it. But if the guy was addressing a convention on another continent when the murder happened, it doesn't matter how much evidence the police have that he was there and committed the crime, he was somewhere else and couldn't have done it. The police may have 500 pieces of evidence connecting him to the crime, but he has 60 better witnesses, people who actually know him and can couch for where he was. Volume of evidence does not constitute proof.

It reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a Baptist minister I was engaged in a theological discussion with. (He lived across the street with me.) He said OK next thursday I'll come over and we'll "discuss" the issue. I put together a few references to illustrate my point. He came over with his bible all bookmarked. He said " How many references do you have...to which I replied "5". He said , "I have 13, I win." To people with poor logic skills this kind of logic is un-assailable. To people like myself, you have to examine the evidence and come to a conclusion in hope to find out what the truth is, often you will never find out, and if you are going to undertake these kinds of searches, you have to be mature enough to live with that. And how many people you can line up to say something is true, has never been a measure of what the truth is to the seeker of truth. ALthough there is a type of person for whom that is all they need and they never feel the need to look beyond that.

This is your baby not mine. I'd encourage you to look at some opposing opinions. If Obama's birth certificate is faked, I would expect at some point someone will produce the person who faked it. Third party analysis by self proclaimed experts with no access to original documents is almost always wrong.

Last edited by normhead; 10-15-2012 at 07:15 AM.
10-15-2012, 05:01 PM   #25
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Vulgar birther fraud appearing with Paul Ryan tonight

Vulgar birther fraud appearing with Paul Ryan tonight - Salon.com

QuoteQuote:
So, sadly, unless some person is taping it, secretly, we may never know the content of the “brief remarks” Trump is expected to give tonight. Will he talk about his many bankrupt casinos, or will he simply babble racist nonsense about the president’s college transcripts? Actually, judging by Twitter these last couple of days, Trump’s remarks could cover any number of subjects, from how only fat people drink diet soda to the role living in a Trump-branded building plays in the performance of star baseball players.

Trump is still America’s most prominent birther, and the Romney campaign is perfectly OK with that, I guess. But not quite OK enough with it to allow outsiders to hear anything he says tonight while speaking with the Republican Party’s vice-presidential nominee.
10-15-2012, 09:57 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
Listen , up, you're missing hte point. Never worked with Illustrator? I taught illustrator, and from my days working with a 6502, I've coded software in machine language. But anyway, here is something you might want to consider...


In many court cases, one side lines up their witnesses and the other lines up theirs, and everyone write their opinion and the court decides who is right. Volume of evidence does not qualify as proof. Only accuracy of evidence counts as proof. You can have the police and prosecutors present all kinds of records, emails suggesting a guy killed his wife including eye witness accounts that they saw him do it. But if the guy was addressing a convention on another continent when the murder happened, it doesn't matter how much evidence the police have that he was there and committed the crime, he was somewhere else and couldn't have done it. The police may have 500 pieces of evidence connecting him to the crime, but he has 60 better witnesses, people who actually know him and can couch for where he was. Volume of evidence does not constitute proof.

It reminds me of a conversation I had years ago with a Baptist minister I was engaged in a theological discussion with. (He lived across the street with me.) He said OK next thursday I'll come over and we'll "discuss" the issue. I put together a few references to illustrate my point. He came over with his bible all bookmarked. He said " How many references do you have...to which I replied "5". He said , "I have 13, I win." To people with poor logic skills this kind of logic is un-assailable. To people like myself, you have to examine the evidence and come to a conclusion in hope to find out what the truth is, often you will never find out, and if you are going to undertake these kinds of searches, you have to be mature enough to live with that. And how many people you can line up to say something is true, has never been a measure of what the truth is to the seeker of truth. ALthough there is a type of person for whom that is all they need and they never feel the need to look beyond that.

This is your baby not mine. I'd encourage you to look at some opposing opinions. If Obama's birth certificate is faked, I would expect at some point someone will produce the person who faked it. Third party analysis by self proclaimed experts with no access to original documents is almost always wrong.
Fair enough. I like reasoned, non-mud-slinging posts. We have been looking at the PDF, and I will say that there appear to be no layers- at least in the version downloaded c. 6/11. I'm not exactly a "birther" or "vulgar" (krol talk), but there are plenty of other suspicious looking features on the document that might have never been an issue were it not for the behavior of the white house prior to "releasing" it.
10-16-2012, 05:12 AM   #27
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Ancient thread started by a Banned member... OLD NEWS!!!! CLOSED!!!!
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