[normhead]

Darn, and I was going to offer to take him hunting grouse with shotguns, out on the back 40.

[redrockcoulee]

Our financial position coming through the crash and recession is due almost entirely to Paul Martin as finance minister. To say otherwise is to fly in the face of the truth. Harper's stimulus program was not a bad one but nothing that would not have been done by a Liberal or NDP government.

It is also great that there is a big prison building program starting because those guilty of committing unreported crimes need some where to be housed. Remember that his govt said that they do not believe the stats that crime rates have been going down the last 30 or 40 years, they do not care for facts they know what they know.That crime rates have been decreasing in most countries I guess are also not facts. He has insulted academics and artists and has lied about the latter, they are not the rich elite even if the people who consume (buy or watch) their art might be. But so what, he is supposed to the leader of the entire country and that includes professors and painters. He has cut almost entirely the research part of Environment Canada especially Canadian Wildlife Service and has replaced them with enforcement officers, people who are charged with making sure that people like me working within the govt are filling out paperwork correctly.

The illegal immigrants are just the latest scapegoats for his party, they need an enemy for us to fear, the poor, the liberals, the non reported criminals, non violent offenders and youth and now the illegals. The Liberals had their sponsorship scandal that cost us some money, the entire program designed to keep the country together cost 250 million and some was poorly accounted for and some was stolen. The G20 summit to show off cost four times as much and unlike Martin who created a commission to investigate the sponsorship scandal, Harper will not even answer the opposition on where that billion of dollars went and why was some of it spent in ridings that had no bearing on either summits. He has trashed environmental laws that other conservative PMs have passed. other than not doing anything wrong in financial stuff why would anyone consider him the greatest PM of all time. Sir John A built this country. Stephen Harper wants us to be angry or fear each other in order that we vote for his party.

I voted PC until part way through this last decade so it is not that I am left and hate the right, I just think he is not only a poor PM but one of the worst things to ever happen to the small c conservative movement in this country.

[mtansley]

When i saw that come out I wasn't surprised, but it still scared the hell out of me. if objecting to that idiocy put me in league with child pornographers then i am in league with them. We already have laws in place that let the police deal with these people and in fact they have had some quite large child pornbust recvently. the police just want it to be easier, no pesky justifying of their actions

Agree with you on that.

Yes, child porn MUST be stopped somehow but there still must be a level of control or oversight between the police and what they do. Otherwise, it seems to me that if you put in a complaint against an officer for something then that would give them unlimited power to check you out and keep digging and basically ruining your life in revenge.

Yes, there are no doubt lots of great officers out there, however, we the public have not seen that recently. We have seen a number of officers that should not be in that job excessively harassing people.

[eddie1960]

Agree with you on that.

Yes, child porn MUST be stopped somehow but there still must be a level of control or oversight between the police and what they do. Otherwise, it seems to me that if you put in a complaint against an officer for something then that would give them unlimited power to check you out and keep digging and basically ruining your life in revenge.

Yes, there are no doubt lots of great officers out there, however, we the public have not seen that recently. We have seen a number of officers that should not be in that job excessively harassing people.

Having lived through the G20 debacle (I live downtown) and witnessing some of the absolute insane abuses of power during and in the lead up to it I have even less trust of the Police than i did previously (and being an old punk lefty I was never to trusting )
I will say that I have over the years dealt with some excellent officers (mostly in my retail years) and Some seem truly embarrassed by the G20 actions of a few, but OTOH I have also been on the late night cherry beach express in my youth and taken a nasty beating in mid February for looking like I did at the time - All for standing waiting outside a friends loft at 3 am waiting for them to show up when some twat busted a window 4 blocks away - convenient scapegoat

[luftfluss]

Darn, and I was going to offer to take him hunting grouse with shotguns, out on the back 40.

So... you have a Kevlar face mask, do you...

[Wheatfield]

Having lived through the G20 debacle (I live downtown) and witnessing some of the absolute insane abuses of power during and in the lead up to it I have even less trust of the Police than i did previously (and being an old punk lefty I was never to trusting )
I will say that I have over the years dealt with some excellent officers (mostly in my retail years) and Some seem truly embarrassed by the G20 actions of a few, but OTOH I have also been on the late night cherry beach express in my youth and taken a nasty beating in mid February for looking like I did at the time - All for standing waiting outside a friends loft at 3 am waiting for them to show up when some twat busted a window 4 blocks away - convenient scapegoat

Talking about the G20, what ever happened to Officer Bubbles? The police turning into what we are seeing is aping what we are seeing to the south, and as long as we have a Shrub wannabe Prime Minister trying to turn the country right towards a police state mentality, we will see more and more cops going rogue.

[normhead]

This article from before the new laws were proposed. Fantino is now an MP and part of the Harper team proposing the snooping. NOt only is he unrepentent over the lives he's ruined, he wants to ruin more.

Porn charges can ruin innocent lives
`Once you're charged, it's over'
London suicide triggers memories

BETSY POWELL
CRIME REPORTER

A 32-year-old London doctor's suicide last weekend after he was charged with possessing child pornography has sent shockwaves through that city and raised questions about the way police and media handle the arrests of people accused of lurid crimes.

When he heard about it, the events of April 15, 2003, came flooding back to Toronto resident James LeCraw. That was the day the 51-year-old man was charged with possessing child pornography. The charges were withdrawn last September.

He was asleep in his west-end Toronto condo when five police officers banged on his door.

"There was something about `You've been charged with child pornography.' It was all pretty embarrassing and humiliating," LeCraw recalled.

The day before, he'd been "on top of the world" after learning he was in line for a big promotion at the non-profit agency he had successfully turned around. "I was thinking, no matter how this goes, I'm screwed now; once you're charged it's over."

The next day, Chief Julian Fantino and Staff Inspector Bruce Smollet, head of the Toronto Police Service sex crimes unit, held a news conference. Each year, Toronto police arrest some 50,000 people, but only a small fraction are singled out in news releases and conferences.

Those cases are highlighted for many reasons, said Toronto police spokesperson Mark Pugash. Police have "an obligation to public accountability, public safety, for people to be aware of what law enforcement issues are, about what is happening."

Pugash said the public also wants to know what police are doing to deal with those issues.

News conferences can also encourage other victims to come forward, Pugash said.

At the briefing, police released the names and ages of six Toronto men, including LeCraw, arrested as part of Project Snowball. "They only have one thing in common," Fantino told reporters. "That is the criminal approach to their relationship with children." He demanded tougher prison terms and asked Ottawa for more money to combat the victimizing of children.

The story received prominent attention in the media. But five months later, the crown quietly withdrew the charges against LeCraw. Crown Attorney Mary Humphrey will say only that the decision was made for a variety of reasons. Pugash, speaking "purely hypothetically," said there are some situations where "the crown may decide not to proceed with a case ... that does not mean that the evidence wasn't there to charge."

In 2002-03, 303 charges of possessing child porn were laid in Canada, not including Manitoba, Northwest Territories and Nunavut, according to the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics. There was a 46.2 per cent conviction rate, with 140 guilty verdicts, two acquittals, 123 charges stayed or withdrawn, and 38 "other" dispositions.

LeCraw said he'd been on an adult porn Web site owned by a company that also runs child pornography sites. Police found his credit card number and used it to obtain a search warrant. He said they searched his computer and found four "pop-up" addresses of child porn sites and a barely visible, tiny image police alleged to be child porn.

Ray Wyre, a leading independent consultant on sex crimes in the United Kingdom, said in a recent interview there are a host of ways people can unwittingly bring illegal material into their computers. "The fact is that you're only three clicks away."

Wyre, who works both for police and for people accused of sex crimes — "I'm not a hired gun for one side or the other" — says "it can come in as a pop-up or a pop-under or possibly as a virus and there are some trojans (computer programs) that have been bringing this stuff in; or maybe somebody was on wife-swapping.com and they got an attached document and they haven't asked for it, and as soon as they saw it they deleted it."

He said the crackdown — the same one that swept up LeCraw also netted rock legend Pete Townshend — has created "problems ... throughout the world" because police were obtaining warrants based on credit card information without conducting more thorough investigations. Townshend, who said he had looked at an image for research, paid a small fine.

Even though he was not convicted, LeCraw feels he was punished. He lost his job, is still unemployed and has taken a second mortgage on his condo. "With this crime there is absolutely no assumption of innocence. I've lost lifelong friends that, to their discredit ... didn't even make a phone call to me, they just read it in the paper."

He has complained to the Ontario Civilian Commission on Police Services and says he can't afford to launch a lawsuit.

Bob Steele, a journalism ethics professor at the Poynter Institute in Florida, said it would be appropriate and "humane" if, when charges are withdrawn, there is acknowledgement of that by police and the media. The media have a "profound responsibility," he says, to "make sure we have an exceptionally high level of fairness to those who are accused in these cases, because they will be tried by the public long before, sometimes, they're tried in a courtroom."

[mtansley]

Talking about the G20, what ever happened to Officer Bubbles? The police turning into what we are seeing is aping what we are seeing to the south, and as long as we have a Shrub wannabe Prime Minister trying to turn the country right towards a police state mentality, we will see more and more cops going rogue.

Keeping his head down, if he's smart.

What on earth are these police trained in? Not common sense.

Actually, as more do go rogue, there will be more citizens that will stand up for their rights, hopefully in court, because if you do it in public you'll get tasered if you're lucky.

Surely the right response in that case of bubbles would be to threaten the person that 'If you blow those bubbles in my face, I'm going to blow bubbles right in your face as well!!" or "I'm going to pop those bubbles."

Maybe what would help is if police were not allowed to wear coloured sunglasses and remain anonymous, but given clear ones instead for protection if that's what they're worried about.

You do realize, Wheatfield, that by talking about things like this, I'm likely to end up in prison for saying evil against the man. Promise me you'll visit once in a while.

[Wheatfield]

Agree with you on that.
Yes, child porn MUST be stopped somehow but there still must be a level of control or oversight between the police and what they do. Otherwise, it seems to me that if you put in a complaint against an officer for something then that would give them unlimited power to check you out and keep digging and basically ruining your life in revenge.

They already have the authority to do that. All they need to do is trump up a suspicion of criminal activity (kiddy porn is a really convenient one, and very powerful), get a search warrant (there isn't a judge out there that won't hand a warrant over for suspected child porn), come in, take your computer, let you cool off in jail for a few days and release a report to the press that you were arrested for suspicion of kiddie porn, and that suspected porn was found on your computer.
Pretty much every computer in a private residence that has a male operating it is going to have pictures of titties on it, even if it's just on the browser cache, so there's your porn. Your life is now ruined, and it doesn't matter that all you ever did was cruise a NSFW image posted on your favorite camera forum.
And there isn't a gawd dammed thing you can do about it, since the cops don't have to justify anything.
Piss off the wrong cop, and you can pretty much kiss your azz goodbye.
This is why the smart person avoids any dealings with the police. They are really not to be trusted.

[mtansley]

They already have the authority to do that. All they need to do is trump up a suspicion of criminal activity (kiddy porn is a really convenient one, and very powerful), get a search warrant (there isn't a judge out there that won't hand a warrant over for suspected child porn), come in, take your computer, let you cool off in jail for a few days and release a report to the press that you were arrested for suspicion of kiddie porn, and that suspected porn was found on your computer.
Pretty much every computer in a private residence that has a male operating it is going to have pictures of titties on it, even if it's just on the browser cache, so there's your porn. Your life is now ruined, and it doesn't matter that all you ever did was cruise a NSFW image posted on your favorite camera forum.
And there isn't a gawd dammed thing you can do about it, since the cops don't have to justify anything.
Piss off the wrong cop, and you can pretty much kiss your azz goodbye.
This is why the smart person avoids any dealings with the police. They are really not to be trusted.

Totally sad and totally true.

[Wheatfield]

You do realize, Wheatfield, that by talking about things like this, I'm likely to end up in prison for saying evil against the man. Promise me you'll visit once in a while.

If we are lucky we'll get to share a cell.

[mtansley]

If we are lucky we'll get to share a cell.

Not all bad then or maybe very bad depending on our political leanings!!.

[eddie1960]

latest g20 news came out today

Google

It was an image that came to represent just about everything that went wrong with policing during the G20 Summit. One badgeless officer, face covered with a gas mask and visor, apparently kicking a protester in the back at Queen’s Park.

Nearly two years later, Nikos Kapetaneas, the 25-year-old environmentalist pictured in the photograph, body tense and face wincing, finally has the name of the officer: Const. Oliver Simpson — also implicated in the high-profile Adam Nobody case.

Caitlin Morgan claims she was next to her partner Kapetaneas when she was kicked forcefully in the side by the same cop on the Saturday of the June 2010 summit. The couple is suing the Toronto Police Services Board (who employs Toronto Police officers) for negligence, assault and battery, and intimidation. The two separate lawsuits, filed last week in small claims court, seek $25,000 each in damages.

this one cop managed to do a world of damage to the police rep, involved in 3 incidents so far

a huge pile of lawsuits now pending from this mess

G20 lawsuits pile up

March 7, 2012: Toronto police settle a human rights claim filed by a paraplegic man arrested during the G20 summit. Terms are not public due to a confidentiality clause.

Feb. 16, 2012: Toronto lawyer Nicholas Wright sues Toronto police for $25,000 for alleged unlawful arrest.

June 24, 2011: Sean Salvati, a paralegal arrested prior to the G20 summit and allegedly strip-searched, assaulted and held naked in a jail cell for nearly an hour sues Toronto police for at least $75,000.

June 23, 2011: Courtney Winkels, threatened with arrest by an officer in a YouTube video for blowing bubbles, sues the Toronto Police Services Board for $100,000 for false arrest and Charter of Rights violations.

March 15, 2011: Two plaintiffs file lawsuits naming the Toronto Police Services Board as defendants and claiming $25,000 in damages. Luke Stewart, a 25-year-old PhD candidate, alleges that during the G20 summit, police said he couldn't enter a park unless he submitted to a search. The other complainant, identified as Kalmplex, is suing police for $25,000 for a wrongful arrest in Parkdale and for extended imprisonment of 20 hours.

May 11, 2011: Charlie Veitch, a British filmmaker arrested under the so-called five-metre law during the G20, sues the province and police for $350,000.

January 2011: Dorian Barton, a 30-year-old cookie maker, files a $250,000 lawsuit against the Toronto Police Services Board and seven unnamed officers, alleging his shoulder was broken and he was denied proper care after his arrest.

Sept. 7, 2010: Natalie Gray of Montreal, who claims she was shot by Toronto police with rubber bullets, files a $1.2 million suit against the Toronto Police Services Board and unnamed individual officers for damages.

Sept. 2, 2010: A $115 million class-action lawsuit involving 1,150 people arrested and detained during the G20 protests in Toronto is filed with the Superior Court. The plaintiffs are represented by lawyer Charles Wagman. The lawsuit has been stayed.

Aug. 6, 2010: A class-action suit is filed by lawyers Eric Gillespie and Murray Klippenstein against the Toronto Police Services Board and the Attorney General of Canada (responsible for the RCMP). The suit, which represents 800 people, seeks $45 million in damages.

and of course the guy in command of the whole mess is now a Harper crony in Ottawa

If you guys go off to jail you i'll tap on the pipes inmy cell to communicate with you

[eddie1960]

reviewing the lawsuits i'm actually astounded there aren't more than listed. there are several Togs (including accredited ones) who suffered injuries and equipment damage or loss as well if I remember correctly

the day of the protest at the holding cells it began right across the street from my house. before i went out for a look with the dog my wife took my camera and made me wear something that wasn't all black as she had no desire to try and find out what happened to me (she apparently knows me too well).

[jac]

They already have the authority to do that. All they need to do is trump up a suspicion of criminal activity (kiddy porn is a really convenient one, and very powerful), get a search warrant (there isn't a judge out there that won't hand a warrant over for suspected child porn), come in, take your computer, let you cool off in jail for a few days and release a report to the press that you were arrested for suspicion of kiddie porn, and that suspected porn was found on your computer.
Pretty much every computer in a private residence that has a male operating it is going to have pictures of titties on it, even if it's just on the browser cache, so there's your porn. Your life is now ruined, and it doesn't matter that all you ever did was cruise a NSFW image posted on your favorite camera forum.
And there isn't a gawd dammed thing you can do about it, since the cops don't have to justify anything.
Piss off the wrong cop, and you can pretty much kiss your azz goodbye.


This is why the smart person avoids any dealings with the police. They are really not to be trusted.

I do not and I would not confirm search warrants on the basis of police suspicion. The RCMP must present me with substantive grounds for search and seizure. The information provided must generally include factual information related to the credibility of the informant(s), their relationship to the alleged perpetrator and whether or not that credibility might be tainted by prejudice or prior criminal activity. As well, substantive information regarding the nature of the information or goods being sought must be provided. It is not as simple a process as one might see on television.
As to 'let you cool off in jail for a few days', an accused must be brought before a judge or justice within twenty-four hours and cause must be shown for further detention. Only in extreme circumstances would the accused be unrepresented by legal counsel who would, by the nature of defense, emphasize the right of all Canadians citizens to remain free until dealt with according to the law. No judicial official that I know would violate this principle of law in order to satisfy the whims of an ambitious police officer.