[lesmore49]

I had a long conversation a couple of years ago with an American, my age, my level of university education and in the same profession.

At the time we were both in our late 50's. However I had retired and he indicated he and his wife weren't in a position to consider retirement until 65 years of age. In fact he was 'hoping' to be able to work past the age of 65 due to medical issues and the ability to pay medical costs.

The reason was because if he retired from the company, he would lose his medical insurance plan that was provided by his employer. Without the plan he and his wife felt that medical expenses would be financially crushing, if either one had the misfortune of significant illness.

He asked me about the Canadian medical system. He indicated that he had heard that we couldn't choose our own doctor, that the ability to see specialists or specialist treatment faced long wait periods.

He had heard this misinformation from rumors circulating around the US. Who the source of this misinformation was....I don't know.

A year previously I had just recovered from a serious illness. I told him of my experience waiting for specialist help and treatment. I had received top treatment by a top specialist within a day or two. I told him the Canadian system worked very well in my experience and I had received specialist care rapidly as my case was quite serious.

He asked my how much this treatment cost....I said I don't know as I saw no bills.

I also told him that I had full choice and always had, of who was to be my GP. In fact, my long time GP was considering retiring so I in fact had two. One a young fellow , very well qualified who was taking over the case load of my soon to be retired long term Dr....also very well qualified.

I love the USA. I have spent much time visiting different states over the years...it's a great country.


We will be traveling either in Canada or European (G8) countries in the future, due to the extremely high costs of American medical treatment.

---

Last edited by lesmore49; 03-16-2012 at 08:02 AM.

[mtansley]

I had a long conversation a couple of years ago with an American, my age, my level of university education and in the same profession.

At the time we were both in our late 50's. However I had retired and he indicated he and his wife weren't in a position to consider retirement until 65 years of age.

The reason was because if he retired from the company, he would lose his medical insurance plan that was provided by his employer. Without the plan he and his wife felt that medical expenses would be financially crushing, if either one had the misfortune of significant illness.

He asked me about the Canadian medical system. He indicated that he had heard that we couldn't choose our own doctor, that the ability to see specialists or specialist treatment faced long wait periods.

A year previously I had just recovered from a serious illness. I told him of my experience waiting for specialist help and treatment. I had received top treatment by a top specialist within a day or two. I told him the Canadian system worked very well in my experience and I had received specialist care rapidly as my case was quite serious.

He asked my how much this treatment cost....I said I don't know as I saw no bills.

I also told him that not I had full choice of who was to be my GP. In fact, my long time GP was considering retiring so I in fact had two. One a young fellow , very well qualified who was taking over the case load of my soon to be retired long term Dr....also very well qualified.

I love the USA. I have spent much time visiting different states over the years...it's a great country.


We will be traveling either in Canada or European (G8) countries in the future, due to the extremely high costs of American medical treatment.

We often don't realize how lucky we are with our system, judging from your post, you are another who does know how lucky we are.

[séamuis]

We often don't realize how lucky we are with our system, judging from your post, you are another who does know how lucky we are.

despite, how it may seem on these forums, I think a great number of americans are starting to realize how lucky our neighbors up north are as well. you should be thankful, that you don't have to face decisions of health or home, like so many americans do. even if you cannot sustain your system forever, one should still be thankful for what you have now. its a good system and I for one wish I had access to such, despite being one of the 'lucky' ones here with quality health insurance.

[mtansley]

despite, how it may seem on these forums, I think a great number of americans are starting to realize how lucky our neighbors up north are as well. you should be thankful, that you don't have to face decisions of health or home, like so many americans do. even if you cannot sustain your system forever, one should still be thankful for what you have now. its a good system and I for one wish I had access to such, despite being one of the 'lucky' ones here with quality health insurance.

Believe me, I am completely grateful for our system, never more so with being unemployed at the moment.

Even if I only get a basic job without any benefits, I know that at least my wife & I are covered for serious medical conditions.

I wish that the system did mail out invoices whenever you use the system to inform you of how much has been paid on your behalf. People might be a bit more grateful.

[redrockcoulee]

I for most of my life was part of the 5% without a doctor. Relied on walk in clinics. Part of it was in the community I live in now there is a shortage of doctors and part is never making the effort to be on a waiting list. Took two years on the list to get an appointment and now have a regular doctor, one who I saw several times at the walk in clinic. Yesterday in a photo journay I noticed doctors wanted billboards on the highway coming up from Montana, perhaps aimed at American doctors coming here for holidays.

A shortage of family doctors is a problem here however I have read studies that it is not due to lack of money but a lack of trained personal and I do not want to see Canada raided the third world for theirs.


When we lived in BC in the late 70s early 80s they did send out semi annual reports of what was spent on your behalf. I think they were interesting and educational.

[8540tomg]

It was fascinating to watch the misinformation/disinformation spread about the Canadian health care system during the so-called debate over Obama care. I have a number of American relatives and even they seemed to be taken in by the nonsense over wait times to see specialists and MRIs etc. While it is true wait times can be long for some elective surgeries in Canada the system works very quickly when the need is acute.

In my own experience I had a malignant melanoma diagnosed on a Thursday, saw a plastic surgeon on the following Tuesday and had the tumor removed on Wednesday. There were batteries of tests and five years of follow up care which eventually pronounced me clear of cancer. There was never a bill for any of these services. I suppose things might have been done more quickly in the US at a private clinic but less than a week from diagnosis to surgery isn’t too bad. Certainly my experience and those of many friends and family bear no relation to the nonsense I was hearing from some parts of the American media about the Canadian health care system.

I believe Steve suggested in an earlier post that the Canadian system my not be sustainable in the face of our aging population. I would have to disagree with Steve on this point. If there is one “untouchable” area in Canadian politics it would be the universal health care system. Any party which messes in any fundamental way with healthcare will find themselves out of power in a hurry.


Tom G

[kswier]

Doing things at a private clinic in the US is not always fast.

[SteveM]

I agree with you Tom regarding changing it fundamentally, but health care costs here in BC have increased by 83% since 2001.

Ensuring health-care spending can be sustained in B.C.

I'm not suggesting the US system is any better....it's worse, but some other models such as those in Europe may need to kick in. I was a paramedic in the late 80s and early 90s and occasionally we would get calls that amounted to abuse....someone had run out of Tissues. Most care is controlled, but I believe minor fees controlled by the government (for those that earn over a certain amount) would help people to think about the costs before they ask for something.

[audiobomber]

I know a family of Canadians who moved to the US about ten years ago. They both have jobs with a major pharmaceutical company and of course the company plan covers health care. I remember initially, they were fans of US health care. Since that time, their three kids have had a few broken bones (big time into sports), one kid has been diagnosed with juvenile diabetes, the father is been treated for cancer, and their company has been continually buying out competitors and closing down plants. The wife recently received notice that her division is closing, and the husband's position is uncertain in the long term. Their opinion of the US system has changed due to constant costs over and above the company sponsored plan. They can well afford it until now, but as we all know, there are many millions of Americans who can't. I suspect they're also looking at the capriciousness of health care coverage, where you can have it good, then suddenly lose it.

[audiobomber]

I'm not suggesting the US system is any better....it's worse, but some other models such as those in Europe may need to kick in.

I agree, some things will have to change in Canada. We have great universal HC, but it's not considered the best in the world, so the changes can be for the better.

[8540tomg]

I agree with you Tom regarding changing it fundamentally, but health care costs here in BC have increased by 83% since 2001.

Ensuring health-care spending can be sustained in B.C.

I'm not suggesting the US system is any better....it's worse, but some other models such as those in Europe may need to kick in. I was a paramedic in the late 80s and early 90s and occasionally we would get calls that amounted to abuse....someone had run out of Tissues. Most care is controlled, but I believe minor fees controlled by the government (for those that earn over a certain amount) would help people to think about the costs before they ask for something.

I agree Steve that our Canadian health care system needs fine-tuning and improvements in many areas. There are many instances such as those you indicate that need attention. Personally, I would not object to user fees in some cases to help curb some of these abuses. The basic concept of universal health care is, I think you would agree, unassailable in Canada. I would oppose any attempt to institute American style health care for profit in Canada. I suspect most Canadians feel the same way.

Tom G

[JHD]

The biggest problem in North America is people do not take responsibility for their own health. They think they can eat and drink whatever they want, sit on their duffs and call the doctor when something goes wrong. The fact is people in North America rarely scarcely - if ever at all - die of old age! Of course it doesn't help that our governments are more willing to curry favors to SIGs with $$ instead of implementing policies that make sense. At the end of the day, it's all ignorance in the name of business; and business is what drives the economy.

[SteveM]

The biggest problem in North America is people do not take responsibility for their own health. They think they can eat and drink whatever they want, sit on their duffs and call the doctor when something goes wrong. The fact is people in North America rarely scarcely - if ever at all - die of old age! Of course it doesn't help that our governments are more willing to curry favors to SIGs with $$ instead of implementing policies that make sense. At the end of the day, it's all ignorance in the name of business; and business is what drives the economy.

I'm sure some free market wingnuts are flabbergasted, but Canada is going after $27B from big tobacco. My first thought was that people should be held accountable for their decision to start smoking, but the case involves big tobacco hiding the truth, lying and actively trying to get children addicted. They are being forced to publically publish internal "top-secret industry papers", and least the ones that they did not destroy.

Tobacco is still trying to insist there is no link between smoking and cancer. This is a good case where one business directly causes massive costs in another business area. At least with a gov system, there is a chance in holding other responsible for their agenda.

Massive tobacco lawsuit set to get under way

[stevewig]

The biggest problem in North America is people do not take responsibility for their own health. They think they can eat and drink whatever they want, sit on their duffs and call the doctor when something goes wrong. The fact is people in North America rarely scarcely - if ever at all - die of old age! Of course it doesn't help that our governments are more willing to curry favors to SIGs with $$ instead of implementing policies that make sense. At the end of the day, it's all ignorance in the name of business; and business is what drives the economy.

So live a good life and die of old age Huh!

A nice, neat, self serving propaganda statement that certainly contains some truth but by no means the "whole truth and nothing but the truth".

Here are the chief causes of death in Canada, according to the National Post and they are very similar to those for the US:

Cancer, heart disease leading causes of death in Canada: StatsCan | News | National Post

[redrockcoulee]

The biggest problem in North America is people do not take responsibility for their own health. They think they can eat and drink whatever they want, sit on their duffs and call the doctor when something goes wrong. The fact is people in North America rarely scarcely - if ever at all - die of old age! Of course it doesn't help that our governments are more willing to curry favors to SIGs with $$ instead of implementing policies that make sense. At the end of the day, it's all ignorance in the name of business; and business is what drives the economy.

How do you die from old age? My dog whose breed has a life expediency of about 12 years perhaps up to 14 die at 15 1/3 years, on the 10th anniversary of being diagnosed with breast cancer. She had been on heart pills for 4 years and the week she died she simply shut down and her body stopped doing what it needed to do. But I do not think that an autopsy would have found her cause of death as old age even though she was old and her components started to fail. My father died at home at almost 79 years old with several health related problems some of them stemming from being hit on Juno beach and laying there for 18 hours before he could get evacuated. But 44 years later when he died was it old age or some problem which are related to old age. A person in our city passed away last year of a stroke, in his mid 90s, again not old age. My brother-in-law died of a brain anarishisim (sp) at age 52 which no amount of living cleanly would have prevented. So again what is exactly dying of old age and how old do you have to be to do so. My mother is in her mid 80s and does not look after herself as good as she should but she is still in decent health. How much older would she have to be before her eventual death is due to old age?

I am serious in these questions as it is a good idea to look into how to make our population healthier and live not only longer but better older lives and to decrease the cost of health care on all of us. But how to do that in an informed,educated and non bias means.

How much does the public want the govt dictating what we can or cannot do in so far as eating, exercising or other life style choices. Already there are high taxes on tobacco, laws regards to helmets and seat belts and lots of money spent on promoting nutrition and exercise. I enjoy chocolate and chips as well as apples and carrots. A little bit of chocolate does me no harm whereas a large amount may. What is the role of govt to make those decisions for me or to tax some thing that is not harmful if taken in moderation the same way they tax tobacco which is not. I think blaming politicians is an easy out to solving complex problems however I do not think we would vote in those that want to control our eating and exercising and they can do nothing if they do not get voted in.

I would like to see a place in the health care for more choices between medications and life style choices so that there is a reason that benefits the individual to make the non medical one.Currently if you have a choice of a pill that your health care plan covers or working out it is not only easier but cheaper to take the pill. Perhaps if the choice is a medically sound one the pill should not be as well covered if that is the route you take. Last year I had high blood sugar and the doctor thought I might have diabetes and my mother has it in her older age (and I had a cat with it so it does run in the family). I was prepared to go with diet and exercise as I think that was the better choice for me all round. It turned out with future tests that it was just the time of day I had the test so it was mute. The point is that there are choices to be made however they are not all as simple as the one I faced and as I am barely in my 60s I have more choice than some one later in life or at least there are easier to face. I do not expect to die of old age as it is not a disease or I do not think a medical condition, just some thing that we who are lucky enough not to have genetic problems or have had fatal accidents get to experience.