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03-21-2012, 06:50 AM   #76
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
the model of every man for himself the US runs on holds zero appeal to me, and for most of the population it makes their lives worse not better from what I see.
what most Americans fail to understand is that the country never really founded this as a principal, and it is not the base for capitalism. when this democracy was founded, people lived in a way that depended on every man for himself to a large degree. you built your own homes, you raised, grew and hunted your own food, made your own clothing, tools, etc. very little was ever bought or was relied upon from other people. the country was independently self-sufficient, naturally. we no longer live under this model. we depend heavily on a social fabric to provide us with basic day to day survival needs. therefore, we cannot hold onto this original idea of 'every man for himself' and the only way forward is to introduce more socialized ideologies to balance out our social dependencies. that doesn't mean becoming socialist or communist. other western nations have realized this, but we allow ourselves to be caught in trying to cling to the old way of doing things because we are bullied and scared by party politics that to be anything else is national suicide. this is of course because we choose to remain ignorant and keep our future generations ignorant by applying the same outdated ideologies to our education system. its always amusing and to the same extent scary that people who argue against it always argue from the extreme. much like winders extremely flawed argument. nobody wants to argue from the middle, from an idea of balanced, as if we are as a people incapable of balancing. if that were true, our capitalist republic would have reverted back to monarchy a long time ago. its all fear mongering and unwillingness to accept change and the need for change. we don't live in 1776 any more, therefore trying to apply an everyday model of living and the social aspect required to 21st century america is a fallacy.


Last edited by séamuis; 03-21-2012 at 06:58 AM.
03-21-2012, 06:55 AM   #77
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote

I'll add another link and educate you on Canada a bit

Social Democracy - The Canadian Encyclopedia
I don't think he came here for an education. I decided he's dumb enough to ignore. I haven't seen him add anything intelligent to a conversation.
03-21-2012, 06:57 AM   #78
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I don't think he came here for an education. I decided he's dumb enough to ignore. I haven't seen him add anything intelligent to a conversation.
I think you may well be correct sir
03-21-2012, 07:10 AM   #79
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
I don't think he came here for an education. I decided he's dumb enough to ignore. I haven't seen him add anything intelligent to a conversation.
I'm getting there, too. When the "H" word gets mentioned, its political kindergarten.

03-21-2012, 07:55 AM   #80
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It was better when Jim was a Republican. There is a guy who knows how to debate an issue.
03-21-2012, 08:01 AM   #81
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It won't because it is so radically different from your system that you would never get it past the purveyors of FUD. America picks and chooses it's socialism based on garnering the most for the individual while ensuring the fewest individuals benefit.
A truly altruistic health care system is just so far away from the American every man for himself ethos that you will never see anything but the for profit system that is bleeding your country and it's citizens.
Well wait until Canada becomes the 51st through 62nd states of the US, plus the 31 from Mexico.
03-21-2012, 08:02 AM   #82
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
It was better when Jim was a Republican. There is a guy who knows how to debate an issue.
Jim does seem to be moving more to the center doesn't he
03-21-2012, 09:53 AM   #83
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QuoteOriginally posted by Tom S. Quote
Well wait until Canada becomes the 51st through 62nd states of the US, plus the 31 from Mexico.
More than likely, this will be what your flag looks like in the not too distant future.

03-21-2012, 10:02 AM   #84
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reverse manifest destiny wheat

the day we become part of the US i will be packing up to move to Cuba (or getting ready to become a "terrorist" battling the oppressor)
03-21-2012, 10:11 AM   #85
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
reverse manifest destiny wheat

the day we become part of the US i will be packing up to move to Cuba (or getting ready to become a "terrorist" battling the oppressor)
Actually, they'll be ours one day.
03-21-2012, 10:21 AM   #86
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Actually, they'll be ours one day.
because they will have to pay the Oil bill we send them and it will be cheaper to submit to our domination bwahahahaha

EDIT - Stage one of our domination plan is going well, we dominate the entertainment industry in many areas (far exceeding out size)
03-21-2012, 10:47 AM   #87
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
because they will have to pay the Oil bill we send them and it will be cheaper to submit to our domination bwahahahaha

EDIT - Stage one of our domination plan is going well, we dominate the entertainment industry in many areas (far exceeding out size)
I prefer eastern entertainment personally. I welcome Canada as our new leader. I'm not a mindless patriot. I want whats best for myself and fellow citizens, not whatever faulty ideology people believe our flag stands for.
03-21-2012, 11:11 AM   #88
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Winder, you're spouting complete nonsense. The extreme form of left-wing politics is communism. The extreme form of right-wing politics is fascism.
Is the "Right" in this country fighting for bigger Government? More Government control?
Fascists advocate a state-directed, regulated economy that is dedicated to the nation; the use and primacy of regulated private property and private enterprise contingent upon service to the nation or state, the use of state enterprise where private enterprise is failing or is inefficient, and autarky. It supports criminalization of strikes by employees and lockouts by employers because it deems these acts as prejudicial to the national community.
Is a state directed and regulated economy a "Right-Wing" idea?

fascism is "a genuinely revolutionary, trans-class form of anti-liberal, and in the last analysis, anti-conservative nationalism" built on a complex range of theoretical and cultural influences. He distinguishes an inter-war period in which it manifested itself in elite-led but populist "armed party" politics opposing socialism and liberalism and promising radical politics to rescue the nation from decadence. Mussolini said that Fascism is revolutionary against liberalism "since it wants to reduce the size of the State to its necessary functions."

Realize that Liberal in the classical sense is a Libertarian. When Mussolini was attacking the ideas of "Liberals" in the 1920's he was not referring to the modern Social Liberal (socialist) he was referring to Classical Liberals of the time who would are considered "Right-Wing" in today's world. Classical Liberalism

If you view this information as incorrect please post the correct information.
03-21-2012, 11:50 AM - 1 Like   #89
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QuoteOriginally posted by Winder Quote
.............Realize that Liberal in the classical sense is a Libertarian. When Mussolini was attacking the ideas of "Liberals" in the 1920's he was not referring to the modern Social Liberal (socialist) he was referring to Classical Liberals of the time who would are considered "Right-Wing" in today's world. Classical Liberalism

If you view this information as incorrect please post the correct information.
I say this in a serious non-critical, non derisary sense:

If you want to argue or discuss politics you should educate yourself and learn how to use a modern political vocabulary. It is not the function of people using this forum to teach you what that vocabularly should be or contain. It is your job to decide what political views you believe in and then promote them vigorously. Until you are able to do that don't make a fool of yourself.
03-21-2012, 11:51 AM   #90
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Fascism in America won't come with jackboots, book burnings, mass rallies, and fevered harangues, nor will it come with black helicopters or tanks on the street. It won't come like a storm, but as a break in the weather, that sudden change of season you might feel when the wind shifts on an October evening: Everything is the same, but everything has changed. Something has gone, departed from the world, and a new reality will have taken its place. All the old forms will still be there: legislatures, elections, campaigns, plenty of bread and circuses. But "consent of the governed" will no longer apply; actual control of the state will have passed to a small and privileged group who rule for the benefit of their wealthy peers and corporate patrons.
--------
The rulers will act in secret, for reasons of "national security", and the people will not be permitted to know what goes on in their name. Actions once unthinkable will be accepted as routine: government by executive fiat, state murder of "Enemies" selected by the leader, undeclared wars, torture, mass detentions without charge, the looting of the national treasury, the creation of huge new "security structures" targeted at the populace. In time, this will be seen as "normal", as the chill of autumn feels normal when summer is gone. It will all seem normal.


--Chris Floyd, November 10, 2001
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