[normhead]

indifference doesn't make you a racist, it just means you are morally weak and a foul person. but you can't say they are racist. thats unfair and ignorant, and in short not much better than being a racist in principal. the idea of 'you either with or against us' doesn't always work in real life even when you are speaking of a cohesive bond of a nation for the betterment of that nation.

a cohesive bond of a nation for the betterment of that nation

What does racism, or tolerance of racism have to do with bettering the nation? The opposite is true. Racism is one of the most destructive forces in the US. I have real life experience with this, my cousins are from the south and they are black, and they have a completely different perspective than you. All your post says is "hey, I'm a white guy."

When I was a kid one of my friends dad was pulled from a truck at a stop light and beaten unconscious by racists in a small town in Georgia, in front of 60 people who did nothing. Then the police came and took him from the hospital and threw him in jail, charged with assault. If you want to look stupid by lecturing me about what the real world is like go ahead. But my real world obviously isn't your real world, because you just said something no black person could say.

SO, yes dude, indifference in the face of racism does make you a racist. If you know and you don't report, you are a facilitator. You don't have to be a front line firebrand to be a racist. You just have to make it possible for racists to do what they do unchallenged to be a racist. The odd thing is, if people stood by while someone was sexually abusing a child, there would be no question, they would be charged. It's amazing how in the US it's ok to stand by as long as the crime committed is racism.

[séamuis]

What does racism, or tolerance of racism have to do with bettering the nation? The opposite is true. Racism is one of the most destructive forces in the US. I have real life experience with this, my cousins are from the south and they are black, and they have a completely different perspective than you. All your post says is "hey, I'm a white guy."

excuse me? I'm from the south. I grew up being raised by hispanics and blacks. so save your BS assumptions for someone else mate. you clearly completely misread or misunderstood my comment. now, as for your examples, I agree they are tragic, you won't find me ever arguing that otherwise, but don't you dare, especially someone who doesn't live in or have any contemporary experience in the south try to tell me that ignoring a bumper sticker makes you a racist. thats about as much of an apples and watermelons comparison as you can get. ignoring a witness to a racially motivated beating could make you an accessory, and it would certainly make you a terrible person, but you can't under ANY circumstance prove that it makes that person a racist. spare me your high moral crap, I know the south and racism far better than you, white skin or not and I know full well what you have tried to tell me is the same thing is not. you assume I think its ok? its not. all I'm saying is that you can't prove indifference to a bumper sticker is racism, and you sure as hell can't tell me its the same thing as being an accessory to a violent hate crime. does the term relevance and context mean nothing to you? I don't condone any racism or discrimination on ANY level and in the south, dealing with things like gender equality makes me an odd man out quite often, but if you actually expect me to take the idea being indifferent is the same as being a racist you are nuts. I'm against the bumper sticker 100% and if I were to see such a sticker here in savannah, you can bet id say something, so don't get your ideas twisted. but indifference and racism are separate in this context and situation and saying they are one one the same only fuels the fire of discontent that keeps racism alive in this country.

[normhead]

Well then that makes you one of those fine people who during the civil rights movement... said "why don't you people just go away, you're causing trouble for us". We had a term for you which I won't bother repeating... the point being, there are not civil rights in America because of people like you...

I don't condone any racism or discrimination on ANY level and in the south,

I'm sorry but I beg to differ but

but don't you dare, especially someone who doesn't live in or have any contemporary experience in the south try to tell me that ignoring a bumper sticker makes you a racist.

Ask me how many times I've heard that because I don't live in the south, I don't know what a racist is? Fortumately I've never been swayed by that logic. I've had segregationists tell me they weren't racist. They were just religiuos and the bible said blacks were inferior. I've heard every line in the book. I don't think you understand how offensive your statements are.

I don't condone any racism or discrimination on ANY level and in the south,

Unless it's on a bumper sticker. Dude, read yourself, allowing people to drive around with bumper stickers like that is condoning racism. Is it the definition of condoning you don't understand?

I'm not sure.

The reason I have no contemporary experience in the south, is many southerners including people like you,are so scary I've never been back. I went for a cause, not to enjoy racist company. The racial climate in the north was such that I learned, indifferent people aren't my friends. My friends were the people who waited until I was away and couldn't be implicated, and then stripped signs like that off the bumpers or where ever they were posted.

More personal history..
The camp where I was had it's gates bombed by the Klan, we had to move from Georgia to Tennessee under cover of darkness, because the Klan poisoned our water supply, and later the camp we went to in Tennessee was burned down by state troopers. Given the level of violence that was perpetrated against blacks in the south, no level of support for racism should be tolerated.

You know, during the height of the CIvil Rights Movement, there were lots of black down there that said "why don't you people just go home, you are just causing trouble for us." Those same people when they started to be able to vote had, representation on local government and started to see some changes in their lives, never came back and said, "thanks for putting your lives on the line to improve our lives". They just reaped the fruits of our efforts, all the while wishing we'd never come because we caused "trouble". So ya, I have enough understanding of the south to know where you are coming from. Just don't expect me to buy into it. Being black itself wouldn't guarantee you aren't racist, lot's of blacks bought into segregationist culture.

but indifference and racism are separate in this context and situation and saying they are one one the same only fuels the fire of discontent that keeps racism alive in this country.

Indifference to racism is so offensive it's destroying your country not keeping it together, and the big reason I will never again go there. It amazes me that you truly don't understand how offensive it is. And in those two opinions you have the difference between you and me. And I'm actually quite proud to be opposed to you. I was when i was in the south, and I still am, but I will not expose myself to people such as yourself. I find your attitudes disturbing, and I don't want to be around them. Indifference to racism is what makes racism possible.

I've done my time. You only get to make first impression once.

[JHD]

It would seem to me setting a limit on free speech isn't necessarily a bad idea. The right wing has always pushed the envelope in America and it won't be long before they step it up even further. Either education in America has failed or it isn't valued and the end result is a great nation in tragic decline.

[Parallax]

This thread is, predictably, taking an ugly turn. I'm not going to delete it because the posting of it served a purpose to some extent in calling attention to the problem; but the direction it's heading does not serve anyone.