[ihasa]

Zimmerman's previous charges were dropped, we do not know why. As for 'trial by media', this is what happens if justice is not done. This is the media (and the citizenry) doing its job. A similar thing happened in this country in the Stephen Laurence case, public outcry and media investigation promoted a thorough review of not just the case but the way the metropolitan police operated.

[GeneV]

What if (just what if) the Martin kid tried to get the gun from Zimmerman? Probably still manslaughter to some degree but who knows we really don't have all the facts yet and it will be up to a court to decide not a bunch of "tweeters".
I'm not sure the Sanford PD deserves the bad press it's getting either. Sanford (been there) is a suburban (for lack of a better term) town with a pretty ethnicly diverse population. Mostly middle / working class and there is a small college there. It's not really the kind of place you would find a bunch of "klansman cops".
Zimmerman had apparently been arrested in the past for asaulting an officer. Not a prime candidate to be every cop's best buddy. The whole cover up angle that the media is presenting just doesn't add up right.

46 calls in 15 months? Either this neighborhood is in an absolute war zone, or Zimmerman is a bit off. This guy seemed to be unemployed, with two prior records of some kind of violence and have nothing to do but play wannabe cop. Who is Florida neighborhood crime watch volunteer George Zimmerman? - BostonHerald.com If the Martin kid had tried to get the gun from his belt, Martin would have been acting in self-defense. If a guy comes up to you in the dark with a gun in his belt and no uniform, you probably expect he is up to no good. Martin seems to have been afraid. Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN

It seems to me that Zimmerman should have been arrested. However, another problem is the HOA or neighborhood association who authorizes a neighborhood watch with guns. Neighborhood WATCH is supposed to be just that. In my experience, even licensed security should not be guards with guns. Firing a gun near a residence is usually a crime, with justification being an affirmative defense, and there is seldom any good which will come of a guard pulling a firearm. Either he hits the suspect, and the suspect sues, he misses and hits something or someone else and they sue or the guard gets shot in the battle and he sues. Private often security gets minimal training and screening, but Zimmerman got none of that. Every homeowner who knowingly approved having Zimmerman walk the neighborhood with a gun in his belt had better be calling his insurer.

[seacapt]

46 calls in 15 months? Either this neighborhood is in an absolute war zone, or Zimmerman is a bit off. This guy seemed to be unemployed, with two prior records of some kind of violence and have nothing to do but play wannabe cop. Who is Florida neighborhood crime watch volunteer George Zimmerman? - BostonHerald.com If the Martin kid had tried to get the gun from his belt, Martin would have been acting in self-defense. If a guy comes up to you in the dark with a gun in his belt and no uniform, you probably expect he is up to no good. Martin seems to have been afraid. Lawyer: Girl on phone with Trayvon Martin cuts shooter's self-defense claim - CNN

It seems to me that Zimmerman should have been arrested. However, another problem is the HOA or neighborhood association who authorizes a neighborhood watch with guns. Neighborhood WATCH is supposed to be just that. In my experience, even licensed security should not be guards with guns. Firing a gun near a residence is usually a crime, with justification being an affirmative defense, and there is seldom any good which will come of a guard pulling a firearm. Either he hits the suspect, and the suspect sues, he misses and hits something or someone else and they sue or the guard gets shot in the battle and he sues. Private often security gets minimal training and screening, but Zimmerman got none of that. Every homeowner who knowingly approved having Zimmerman walk the neighborhood with a gun in his belt had better be calling his insurer.

I'm with you on most of that ! Neighborhood watch volunteers are supposed to observe and report not try to arrest and not carry weapons for any reason other than personal self defense. Really sounds like Zimmerman had no clue and was at best reckless and irresponsible.
As far as armed private security most reputable firms do require training and screen their armed personel pretty well. I say this because I have several ex-LEO friends working private security in South Florida

[audiobomber]

Looking at the big picture, there's no way this loser would have been carrying a gun in Canada.

Why were there two shots? It sounds to me like the second was the killing shot. Anything less than second-degree murder is a travesty.

[seacapt]

Looking at the big picture, there's no way this loser would have been carrying a gun in Canada.

Why were there two shots? It sounds to me like the second was the killing shot. Anything less than second-degree murder is a travesty.

There were articles that stated it sounded like 2 shots and others which stated a single shot was fired. Is there now a definnative statement?

[audiobomber]

There were articles that stated it sounded like 2 shots and others which stated a single shot was fired. Is there now a definnative statement?

You can clearly hear the second shot in the 911 call. The first shot is a 4:52, the second at 5:00.

[newarts]

Much of the media hype and discussion here about incidental details distract from the true problem: the implementation of Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law has given individuals de facto license to kill on mere suspicion of another's intent.

"Stand Your Ground" ( ie. "I thought he might hurt me") apparently has sufficient standing in the minds of Sanford Police to release Zimmerman, uncharged.

It is the law that should be on trial here.

[newarts]

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law has given individuals de facto license to kill on mere suspicion of another's intent.

Not unlike Bush's Prememptive strike policy..which is equally wrong.

[GeneV]

I'm with you on most of that ! Neighborhood watch volunteers are supposed to observe and report not try to arrest and not carry weapons for any reason other than personal self defense. Really sounds like Zimmerman had no clue and was at best reckless and irresponsible.
As far as armed private security most reputable firms do require training and screen their armed personel pretty well. I say this because I have several ex-LEO friends working private security in South Florida

The quality of private security varies greatly. Our state law requires 30 hours of training to be licensed, and most of that is teaching them to shoot straight. This is not adequate training to make judgment calls these guys have to make. There are some excellent companies, but most people don't know how to tell who they are. Oddly enough, some of the worst issues have surrounded a company here organized by ex-LEOs. They couldn't get past what they did at their other job. They would get into trouble because they would tackle suspects and cuff them. The saddest incident reported in our papers was when one of these guys pulled out his gun and chased a guy down who was stealing quarters from the laundry. The thief turned around and shot the security officer through the head. Security Guard Killed Trying To Stop Burglars.(Final) | HighBeam Business: Arrive Prepared Most other guards would just call the police. On the other hand, even when the guard acts properly, their client will be sued. I still remember this reported case my firm defended 25 years ago. SAVINSKY v. BROMLEY GROUP, LTD.

[deadwolfbones]

I'm not sure the Sanford PD deserves the bad press it's getting either. Sanford (been there) is a suburban (for lack of a better term) town with a pretty ethnicly diverse population. Mostly middle / working class and there is a small college there. It's not really the kind of place you would find a bunch of "klansman cops".
Zimmerman had apparently been arrested in the past for asaulting an officer. Not a prime candidate to be every cop's best buddy. The whole cover up angle that the media is presenting just doesn't add up right.

FWIW, counterpoint from another board I post on:

My best friend is an officer with Seminole County, which is where Sanford is at (he actually lives in Sanford, too). He's told me that the Sanford PD has had an awful reputation forever, both in the community (back when this first broke he told me the fact the 911 tapes hadn't been released yet was fishy as hell and they were probably trying to stave off a riot) and in law enforcement circles, just total yokels, even not taking into account any racism or corruption issues. He also said that most other cops in his department see the silver lining in this as the potential end of Stand Your Ground (at least as it currently exists), which they generally hated from day one. Wannabe-cop losers (and my friend said he was thankful Zimmerman never got in as there are already enough crackerjack cops out there and Zimmerman probably would've shot one or two other kids by now), "neighborhood patrol"-types like Zimmerman aren't unusual at all, and when you throw a law like this in their mix they knew something exactly like this was going to happen.

[GeneV]

Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law has given individuals de facto license to kill on mere suspicion of another's intent.

Not unlike Bush's Prememptive strike policy..which is equally wrong.

Florida's law went way beyond Castle laws or even the principle of "stand your ground" when it added that deadly force was allowed “to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony.” Given that the statute is couched in terms of what the shooter "reasonably believes" it could certainly lead to justification for a vigilante. Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

However, the police also acted outside this law when they did not arrest Zimmerman or even do a thorough investigation. Justification is usually an affirmative defense. That means the accused is guilty unless he puts on proof of the justification. The Florida law presumes in favor of the shooter only in cases where there has essentially been a burglary, and there was no reasonable suspicion of a burglary. It seems to assume it applies in or very near to a home--not on a street. Moreover, the presumption does not apply if the person shot has a right to be in a residence, which Martin did. Zimmerman should have been required to prove to the police that Martin was committing a crime or had no right to be there. Still, the manner in which this law is written does not help anyone.

[audiobomber]

Zimmerman is the pursuer, Zimmerman is armed, the kid is trying to run away from the confrontation. If everything remained the same, the situation, the 911 tapes, but with an opposite ending and Zimmerman dead, a self-defence plea would make sense. The aggressor cannot claim self-defence, this is second degree murder.

[tuco]

"Stand Your Ground" ( ie. "I thought he might hurt me") apparently has sufficient standing in the minds of Sanford Police to release Zimmerman, uncharged.

Somehow I get the feeling that if the victim was an off duty police officer, a doctor, a lawyer, the mayor, a famous personality, etc regardless of race there would have been criminal charges.

[Parallax]

Somehow I get the feeling that if the victim was an off duty police officer, a doctor, a lawyer, the mayor, a famous personality, etc regardless of race, there would have been criminal charges.

Yep.

[normhead]

I still haven't wrapped my head around this. Ok , you don't have to back down, so if two people are coming from different directions and neither has to back down, and they're both scary dudes and both feel threatened, it's OK if they just pull out the hardware and start blasting away?