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05-18-2012, 01:25 PM   #811
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
He wouldn't need my kind of training to come through a sreet fight without bloody knuckles. I was simply trying to make the point that several of Wheat's comments were way off base. I had a buddy who weighed all of 160 lbs with no formal training. We were headed to a club one night dressed for success in search of young ladies. In the parking lot my buddy said something to a guy twice his size who proceeded to turn around wanting to fight.My buddy handed me his sport coat and proceeded to knock the big guy out landing 7 or 8 body punches and a couple head shots in just a minute or two. He put his jacket back on , straightened his tie , fixed his hair and we went back to the business at hand. The severity of abbraision or lack there of on Martins hands really have no bearing on how badly Zimmerman was being beaten.
Then again one of the witnesses said Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him MMA style (not my thing at all) but maybe the kid did have some training.
Anything is possible, but I'd like to hear from real experts about the LIKELIHOOD that someone Martin's size could do serious damage to the face and head of someone Zimmerman's size and not have more than a 1/4" x 1/8" abrasion on one hand to know whose assumptions are really off base here. Zimmerman is claiming head punches.

05-18-2012, 01:43 PM   #812
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QuoteOriginally posted by joe.penn Quote
The Police are purposely covering this up and doctoring reports.
The original prosecutor it covering it up.
The police chief is wrong and covering it up.
I don't completely rule those out. The police won't look as bad in the end for seemingly having done nothing early on if Zimmerman is acquitted. They can say "See, that's why we didn't do what you thought we should have. We knew the shooting was justified".
Would they risk the ensuing PR nightmare, unemployment, and possible jail time? I don't know, but people have been known to risk more for far less potential benefit.
05-18-2012, 03:26 PM   #813
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I don't completely rule those out. The police won't look as bad in the end for seemingly having done nothing early on if Zimmerman is acquitted. They can say "See, that's why we didn't do what you thought we should have. We knew the shooting was justified".
Would they risk the ensuing PR nightmare, unemployment, and possible jail time? I don't know, but people have been known to risk more for far less potential benefit.
I've seen cops do a lot of stupid sh*t so it wouldn't surprise me. most are good but a few are complete a**holes. problem is the good will stick up for the A**holes "brotherhood" feh
05-18-2012, 04:14 PM   #814
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I don't completely rule those out. The police won't look as bad in the end for seemingly having done nothing early on if Zimmerman is acquitted. They can say "See, that's why we didn't do what you thought we should have. We knew the shooting was justified".
Would they risk the ensuing PR nightmare, unemployment, and possible jail time? I don't know, but people have been known to risk more for far less potential benefit.
If they were found guilty of federal civil rights violations, they could also face jail time as well as a PR nightmare, damages and job losses, so there is quite a bit of incentive to make the initial decision look right. I'm not saying that is happening, but they are hanging out there a bit on the quality of the initial investigation--not testing Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, not checking his record of assaults but declaring it "clean," not preserving blood spatters from the rain, not detaining someone who has admittedly just killed while witnesses are interviewed immediately, on and on.

05-18-2012, 04:39 PM   #815
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
they are hanging out there a bit on the quality of the initial investigation
Indeed! Either way one chooses to look at it it appears the police did a very poor job. If they were attempting to help Zimmerman all they have done is left a mess that looks suspiciously like a blotched cover up. If they were impartial they just did a p*ss poor job.
05-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #816
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
If they were found guilty of federal civil rights violations, they could also face jail time as well as a PR nightmare, damages and job losses, so there is quite a bit of incentive to make the initial decision look right. I'm not saying that is happening, but they are hanging out there a bit on the quality of the initial investigation--not testing Zimmerman for drugs and alcohol, not checking his record of assaults but declaring it "clean," not preserving blood spatters from the rain, not detaining someone who has admittedly just killed while witnesses are interviewed immediately, on and on.
guilty or not the way they handled this put's any resolution in question
05-18-2012, 05:33 PM   #817
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QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
No need for me to sway opinions, unless Martin had a Gun or a knife pulled there was no justification for a firearm. Add in that Zimmerman had to pursue him rather than let the police respond to his call reporting it and it is doubly bad. I doubt the Kid was a paragon of virtue, but Zimmerman's actions were reflective of a vigilante mindset. If you are willing for that to be the standard in your country you set the bar too low. Defending your family in a home invasion or car jacking is one thing. chasing down a suspicious kid is then killing him (when he probably attacked because he felt threatened) is a whole different kettle of fish. Kid was smaller, and not reputedly a hot head prone to violent out burst. Zimmerman is the opposite.
You are arguing a disparity of force. There are precedence cases out there on that very thing. You can endup seriously hurt or dead if someone doesn't stop something like that. Plus, the autopsy listed his height at at least 6 feet and 158 pounds. Zimmerman was 185 pounds but shorter. The arm length advantage likely went to Martin.

This is not an uncommon occurrence in Tampa and Miami.

GRAPHIC VIDEO: 4 men attack U.S. Army soldier | WTVR.com ? Richmond News & Weather from WTVR Television CBS 6

They just arrested 2 suspects.

2 arrested in attack on MacDill soldier | TBO.com


I certainly wouldn't let it get that far if I could help it whether it was 1, 2, or a dozen of them.

Last edited by Blue; 05-18-2012 at 05:54 PM.
05-18-2012, 05:35 PM   #818
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QuoteOriginally posted by Parallax Quote
I don't completely rule those out. The police won't look as bad in the end for seemingly having done nothing early on if Zimmerman is acquitted. They can say "See, that's why we didn't do what you thought we should have. We knew the shooting was justified".
Would they risk the ensuing PR nightmare, unemployment, and possible jail time? I don't know, but people have been known to risk more for far less potential benefit.
The original prosecutor was taking it to a Grand Jury before he was sacked and replaced by the tea-party Republican Angela Corey. They were considering manslaughter. The police roped of the area that night because it was on the news that night. It was raining prior and after the shooting. The didn't secure Zimmerman's truck but it is unlikely to be a game changer.

05-18-2012, 05:44 PM   #819
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Lets see, we have a dead kid who, apparently, never threw a punch (an inconsequential scrape on a finger does not a street fight make), and a gun weilding killer who says he was in a street fight, and had wounds purportedly proving it).
There wasn't enough residual THC in Mr. Martin's system to have had any effect on his mental outlook, and even had he been stoned, the drug itself makes people passive, not aggressive.
Since Trayvon wasn't in a street fight, exactly who was it on top of Zimmerman? Or was anyone on top of him, and his injuries were inflicted after the fact to give him an out for the murder, with witnesses carefully coached.
The lack of injuries to Trayvon's hands really puts a fork in the defence's story that he was pounding the crap out of Zimmerman.
Actually, he apparently did according to the statements from 2 witnesses and injuries to the knuckles. There is more to the autopsy report that just the part shown at the Puffington site. Your panties are just bunched up because someone has a ccw. Those statements were taken the night of the incident and the day after it. Crump has been doing plenty of coaching it up including fabricating witness stories and instigating the altered audio on this thing. He has made millions of this thing and the Martin daddy, mother and brother will be working for the Trayvon foundation after she uses up the 8 months of leave time donated to her by co-workers.


QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Bruised, probably not so much because he was dead before bruises would have had a chance to form, but I don't see how anyone could straddle a person and punch that person in the head repeatedly and not have contusions on his hands, perhaps broken or impacted knuckles, or skin damage that would form bruises, had he lived long enough.
Yet for some reason, the coroner found one tiny little scratch on Trayvon's hands, perhaps the coroner is secretly in bed with the New Black Panthers and is partaking in a little conspiracy of his own.
Actually, the M.E. would have layered back the layers and examined the tissue below the surface to determine knuckle bruising. As far as the NBPP, Even the Southern Poverty Law Center considers them a hate group. Even Huey Newton denounced them. I

Last edited by Blue; 05-18-2012 at 05:51 PM.
05-18-2012, 11:06 PM - 1 Like   #820
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
A
Your panties are just bunched up because someone has a ccw.
Wrongo little man. I've really given up on caring if Americans want to shoot each other for sport or not. I figure there are lots of you, so it's not like as if you are putting yourselves on the endangered species list with your culturally ingrained homicidal tendencies, and even if you wipe yourselves off the face of the Earth, it's not like as if we'll miss you.
05-19-2012, 10:44 AM   #821
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
and even if you wipe yourselves off the face of the Earth, it's not like as if we'll miss you.
Sure you would. Think of the hours upon hours of debate and infighting you'd have to go through trying to reach a consensus on who to vilify, blame the world's problems on, and direct your hatred toward. Right now you have it easy. If something isn't right in the world, it's America's fault.

Last edited by Parallax; 05-19-2012 at 07:45 PM.
05-20-2012, 12:25 AM   #822
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
Wrongo little man. I've really given up on caring if Americans want to shoot each other for sport or not. I figure there are lots of you, so it's not like as if you are putting yourselves on the endangered species list with your culturally ingrained homicidal tendencies, and even if you wipe yourselves off the face of the Earth, it's not like as if we'll miss you.
Does name calling and insults prop up your ego?
05-20-2012, 09:21 AM   #823
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Does name calling and insults prop up your ego?
No more than your pomposity props up yours.
05-20-2012, 03:47 PM   #824
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
No more than your pomposity props up yours.
Pot Kettle Black

Hand
05-20-2012, 08:16 PM   #825
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Dang, this thread is sure bringing out the worst in us all. Hey!!! What's going on here? Us disagreeing with the topic at hand, a little friendly debate is one thing. Outright calling each other names, and insulting each other that isn't too cool. Ouch!!!! Can't we just go back to just not agreeing and leave the insulting directly off the table? It's getting a bit nasty in here....
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