[jogiba]

The judge in the Trayvon Martin case revoked George Zimmerman's bond and ordered him to jail after prosecutors showed he had lied about his personal finances during his bond hearing.

George Zimmerman back to jail for 'falsehoods.' Will they influence trial? - CSMonitor.com

[GeneV]

Interesting, well-researched and detailed article from a Tampa paper about how the "Stand Your Ground" laws have played out, along with some enlightening stories and statistics about its use. Florida 'stand your ground' law yields some shocking outcomes depending on how law is applied - Tampa Bay Times

"People often go free under 'stand your ground' in cases that seem to make a mockery of what lawmakers intended," wrote the Times reporters. "One man killed two unarmed people and walked out of jail. Another shot a man as he lay on the ground. Others went free after shooting their victims in the back. In nearly a third of the cases the Times analyzed, defendants initiated the fight, shot an unarmed person or pursued their victim — and still went free."

Some cases have even acquitted (and convicted) persons who left a fight and came back armed. Results have been so hugely inconsistent that no one can be certain that killing another human, even as the aggressor, will be deemed illegal.

"I think the (stand your ground) law has an emboldening effect. All of a sudden, you're a tough guy and can be aggressive,'' said George Kirkham, a professor emeritus at Florida State University who has worked as a police officer.

Criminologists say that when people with guns get the message they have a right to stand and fight, rather than retreat, the threshold for using that gun goes down. All too often, Bruce Bartlett, chief assistant state attorney for Pinellas-Pasco counties, sees the result.

"I see cases where I'll think, 'This person didn't really need to kill that person but the law, as it is written, justifies their action,' " Bartlett said about incidents that his office decides not to prosecute due to "stand your ground." "It may be legally within the boundaries. But at the end of the day, was it really necessary?"

[boriscleto]

Jesus' General: Another Proudly White American Shoots a Dangerous Black Child

Too bad for him Wisconsin doesn't have a stand your ground law.

[Blue]

Interesting, well-researched and detailed article from a Tampa paper about how the "Stand Your Ground" laws have played out, along with some enlightening stories and statistics about its use. Florida 'stand your ground' law yields some shocking outcomes depending on how law is applied - Tampa Bay Times



Some cases have even acquitted (and convicted) persons who left a fight and came back armed. Results have been so hugely inconsistent that no one can be certain that killing another human, even as the aggressor, will be deemed illegal.

It isn't all that well researched but then again, it is a newspaper which aren't exactly peer reviewed publications. For example, it has been pointed out numerous times that the SYG is section 3 of a bigger statute, FL 776.013. Plus it doesn't specifically have anything to do with guns. The study doesn't show that stats where it was used appropriately. Several of the controversial cases have involved knives, ice picks and other non firearm weapons. The law specifies 2 things: it can't be used during the commission of a felony and #2, "Who is Attacked. The few times the law as been miss applied is judges doing it.

On top of that, there have been 18 to 40 justifiable deaths per year by civilians under ALL kinds of situations not just the syg statute. What the bozo criminologist across town here doesn't mention is that the law isn't specifically limited to guns and states "who is attacked." Plus, he doesn't mention that what the law does mainly that wasn't in place before is make it impossible for family members or criminals to sue when killed or injured during the commission of a forced felony. It also attempted to offset the argument that people should try to retreat even when in their own bed rooms. In fact, was drafted with prosecutors like Angela Corey in mind. It is unfortunate no one is running against that Tea Party Hag this election. I guess all the Democrats are too scared of her.

Jesus' General: Another Proudly White American Shoots a Dangerous Black Child

Too bad for him Wisconsin doesn't have a stand your ground law.

I have news for you, he would be arrested in Florida.

[seacapt]

Plus, he doesn't mention that what the law does mainly that wasn't in place before is make it impossible for family members or criminals to sue when killed or injured during the commission of a forced felony.
.

Now thats just not right. Think of all those poor lawyers out of work because of this oppressive right wing doctrine.

When I was living in FL a friend rented space in a warehouse facillity in Boca Raton. One morning while picking up some equiptment he found a guy who had tried to break into the complex wrapped up and suspended in the concertina wire at the top of the fence. The would be burgelar's tools were on the ground. My buddy called 911 and waited for the cops and ambulance. Gave his report , loaded his gear and went on with his work day.
The burgelar who had allready bled out badly died on the way to the hospital. Yup the familly got a lawyer and sued the warehouse , ambulance company and my buddy ( they said he should have administered first aid).

[Nesster]

Did they win?

[seacapt]

Yes and no.
My buddy and his attorney to go to court to say that he had no medical training , may have made the situation worse and would have put himself in danger by doing anything more than he did.
The ambuance company got off .
The warehouse complex had to pay out some money and were forced to replace the concertina wire with with regular barbed wire.
Four lawyers got paid.

[GeneV]

Perhaps the family that jails together stays together. George Zimmerman’s wife arrested, charged with perjury - BostonHerald.com

[GeneV]

More disclosures of the police investigation. Pages From Police Reports Without Statements Redacted At least twice, Zimmerman claimed that he shot Martin to keep Martin from getting his pistol which he was carrying stuck in his waistband without any holster or protective measures. Again, it raises the question whether the combination of a poorly worded stand your ground law and concealed carry law is dangerous.

The investigator who recommended his arrest was reassigned to patrol--though it is claimed it was at his own request.

[joe.penn]

George Zimmerman passed lie detector test following Trayvon Martin shooting | ksdk.com

Zimmerman was asked nine questions, including two related directly to the shooting: "Did you confront the guy you shot?" the tester asked. "No," Zimmerman responded. "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?" the tester asked. "Yes," Zimmerman said. The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth."

[GeneV]

George Zimmerman passed lie detector test following Trayvon Martin shooting | ksdk.com

It was not a lie detector but a voice stress analysis of the interview. From that same article:

Ron Grenier, a former FBI agent and lie detector expert, said the voice stress analysis test is not as reliable as a polygraph test. Also, he said, it's unclear what the examiner meant by "confront." Further, such tests don't measure a person's state of mind or fear at some other time, he added.

"He may have convinced himself that he was in fear of his life, but whether or not he was is not definitive," Grenier said.

Zimmerman's responses would be more meaningful, he said, if he had been asked, "'Did Trayvon Martin attack you and knock you to the ground?' Or 'Was Trayvon Martin on top of you hitting you before you shot him?' "

Joe Navarro, a former FBI agent who teaches interviewing techniques at Saint Leo University, agreed. "You have to ask precise questions," he said. "You want to know at what point you feared for your life."

And all of the reports point out inconsistencies in the story. However, more to the point, he may have been genuinely in fear for his life as a result of having put himself in a position in which he was in a struggle and feared, as he noted in the interview, that the other person would take his gun and kill him.

[Parallax]

Again, it raises the question whether the combination of a poorly worded stand your ground law and concealed carry law is dangerous.

If Martin was trying to take Zimmerman's gun then he clearly knew Zimmerman had a gun. If he knew Zimmerman had a gun then either a. the gun wasn't concealed, or b. Zimmerrman told him he had a gun. Either one is ill advised in this situation. Either action could have been seen as a threat by Martin.

[eddie1960]

If Martin was trying to take Zimmerman's gun then he clearly knew Zimmerman had a gun. If he knew Zimmerman had a gun then either a. the gun wasn't concealed, or b. Zimmerrman told him he had a gun. Either one is ill advised in this situation. Either action could have been seen as a threat by Martin.

Hate to say it but it yet another argument for stricter gun control. concealed carry permits are just stupid to have for anyone other than Police. never mind a carry permit should have insanely strict rules about how it must be carried transported. carrying a gun loose in your waistband is just asking for trouble
Sorry but the way this is playing out the one who should be on the side of stand your ground looks more and more like the kid. If I had a bigger guy threatening me (by following me etc) and i saw he had a gun, i'd be likely to fight for my life including trying to get the gun. which is what it sounds like happened. Sadly this is just a tragic incident brought about by a vigilante mindset. just my commie canadian opinion though

[Jack]

Or, for argument sake, when Martin attacked Zimmerman the gun became exposed.

[séamuis]

Or, for argument sake, when Martin attacked Zimmerman the gun became exposed.

not too difficult since he was apparently carrying it in a very unsafe manner.