[Ratmagiclady]

Not like it wasn't obvious, but investigating NOM's illegal financing for anti-marriage-equality campaigns and referenda in Maine turned up them admitting their strategy of racial division and all.


NOM's Anti-Gay Marriage, Race-Dividing Plans Revealed In Secret Documents Obtained By HRC


Scary thing is, Romney signed their anti-equality pledge. Guess who's a big funder of NOM's anti-civil-rights campaigns, too.

Isn't it about time to say *no* to these haters? Whatever you think of the economy?

[ihasa]

Nasty, nasty business.

The strategic goal…is to drive a wedge between gays and blacks—two key Democratic constituencies. Find, equip, energize and connect African American spokespeople for marriage; develop a media campaign around their objections to gay marriage as a civil right; provoke the gay marriage base into responding by denouncing these spokesmen and women as bigots…

[jolepp]

Nasty it is. Also, scary thought that tactics like this apparently are a 'normal' part of the US political scene; in essence, propaganda instead of rational discussion, not that propaganda would be unheard of elsewhere, the degree to which it dominates the US scene seems unique among 'western' countries though.

[Nesster]

Apparently for many politics is a Darwinian process; but one which emphasizes the conflict and competition aspects over cooperative and ecolological, in that early 20th century Western right wing manner. And the test for survival: each election. In a very real sense this is akin to the quarterly results focus in American business. There is no long term: the belief is that if you take care to 'win' each short term test, the future takes care of itself.

[ihasa]

The US is a battleground. When I visited a friend in California I was baffled by the complication of the various boycotts he was participating in. After a 21 hour flight I was starving but didn't get to eat that night because all of the fast food places we passed had supported anti-gay lobbies. Makes me grateful for cosy, cloying Britain where the two main political parties are competing with each other to prove who's the most pro-gay-rights and the morality of gay equality is basically a given.

[mikemike]

Nasty it is. Also, scary thought that tactics like this apparently are a 'normal' part of the US political scene; in essence, propaganda instead of rational discussion, not that propaganda would be unheard of elsewhere, the degree to which it dominates the US scene seems unique among 'western' countries though.

The tactics described in this article are quite blase to me. I have been in a lot of meetings where the campaign managers and strategists are talking about targeting, discussing the materials that will be sent to each group, and arguing about whether they have equivocated the message enough to have the right impact and avoid pressing some other segment's hot button issues.

In my experience democratic campaigns are much worse about this, mainly because the "big tent" isn't really one big tent, it is 20-30 small tents (gays, blacks, latinos, jews, blue collar whites, youths, feminists, granola eaters, etc) whose attendants would feel uncomfortable if they wandered into some of the other tents. That is why democrats are often associated with identity politics. The republican party has fewer tents and those tents are generally more homogeneous so they don't generally need to be so aggressive in segmenting and careful in messaging unless they are doing a counter-offensive campaign such as the anti-gay marriage one.

[Ratmagiclady]

You know how I don't exactly use the word 'evil' lightly?



Peter Montgomery: NOM's Real Values


Though I did have a good snerk about NOM wanting to recruit some bigoted members of 'glamorous non-cognitive elites' to try to make bigotry 'cool.'

[magkelly]

Honestly I'm not big on boycotting corporations and such just because they happen to take a different stance on something than I do. I may despise their bigotry but it is a free country. It amazes me though how far back into the Dark Ages some people can still be in this country. I'm all for people having religious freedom and all but common sense that's just not something you see along with it here and I find that a bit annoying. I don't like any of the candidates at all so far. I can't even believe that Santorum even got this far. He's a flaming bigot, a total misogynist, and he's still got people voting for him? It's like "What the F-?" Politically speaking it's like the whole country has gone nuts I think, but then I saw that coming when they actually fell for Obama's carny act and voted for him, I think.

My folks like and eat at Chick Fillet and my aunt uses that Shapes place to work out even though she knows what they support and she's a diehard feminist in a lot of ways. I don't like what either company does with their money but it is their money I guess. I put most of my money where I believe it should go, try to work against that kind of thing, but I'm realistic too. I have to live with my parents choices too and I have to drive them and eat with them even if just walking into Chick Filet just makes me want to gag at times. I choose my battles, but I also realize that sometimes compromise is necessary.

I'd sooner elect Obama dog catcher than elect him back to the Oval Office. I don't like him as President, period. But looking at the alternatives? It's either don't vote or vote badly. Oh hell. It all makes me so disgruntled and disillusioned. I haven't felt any faith in any candidate or in politics at all in so long. I'm completely cynical. Boycotting, voting, I just don't think it matters all that much what I do. The government is going to do what it will no matter what I want or think.

[ihasa]

It's imperative that you do vote for Obama. A Santorum or Romney presidency is what will happen if disillusioned progressives don't vote! Why so despondent about Obama though?

[mikemike]

I don't like him as President, period. But looking at the alternatives? It's either don't vote or vote badly. Oh hell. It all makes me so disgruntled and disillusioned. I haven't felt any faith in any candidate or in politics at all in so long. I'm completely cynical. Boycotting, voting, I just don't think it matters all that much what I do. The government is going to do what it will no matter what I want or think.

The most effective thing you can do to influence your elected officials, short of spending money, is to vote in every election no matter how big or small and to respond to pollsters and in-person phone calls. If you vote every time, you will be considered a "chronic voter" and everyone will court your vote every time. In smaller elections like for city council through state legislature this can sometimes mean a one-on-one sales job with the candidate whose seeking your vote which gives you a chance to speak your mind. For state and presidential elections it is usually a poll that will get interpreted by the guys working the etch-a-sketch knobs but if you are in a key demographic in a swing state you could exert a lot of influence just by responding to a poll.

[Ratmagiclady]

Honestly I'm not big on boycotting corporations and such just because they happen to take a different stance on something than I do. I may despise their bigotry but it is a free country. It amazes me though how far back into the Dark Ages some people can still be in this country. I'm all for people having religious freedom and all but common sense that's just not something you see along with it here and I find that a bit annoying. I don't like any of the candidates at all so far. I can't even believe that Santorum even got this far. He's a flaming bigot, a total misogynist, and he's still got people voting for him?

That's partly cause some corporations like Chick-F-A spend massive amounts of money supporting hate groups and PACs that *push* this bigotry, meaning that all the Republican candidates are running on nothing but bigotry and misogyny and obviously-failed corporatist policies.

And it's not *their* money until they get it. Saying 'oh, well,' and giving it to them while they use it to harm both the nation and people like me, while supporting people like NOM who corrupt the very process you're so disillusioned with... Frankly, Mags, I find it disappointing.

It's like "What the F-?" Politically speaking it's like the whole country has gone nuts I think, but then I saw that coming when they actually fell for Obama's carny act and voted for him, I think.

My folks like and eat at Chick Fillet and my aunt uses that Shapes place to work out even though she knows what they support and she's a diehard feminist in a lot of ways. I don't like what either company does with their money but it is their money I guess. I put most of my money where I believe it should go, try to work against that kind of thing, but I'm realistic too. I have to live with my parents choices too and I have to drive them and eat with them even if just walking into Chick Filet just makes me want to gag at times. I choose my battles, but I also realize that sometimes compromise is necessary.

I'd sooner elect Obama dog catcher than elect him back to the Oval Office. I don't like him as President, period. But looking at the alternatives? It's either don't vote or vote badly. Oh hell. It all makes me so disgruntled and disillusioned. I haven't felt any faith in any candidate or in politics at all in so long. I'm completely cynical. Boycotting, voting, I just don't think it matters all that much what I do. The government is going to do what it will no matter what I want or think.

Considering the rampant hatred, bigotry, and misogyny, not to mention destructive tactics and greed-favoring policies of the GOP, the answer isn't to say, 'They're all the same, I may as well let the bigots win,' ...whatever happened to expecting politicians of either party to *represent *us?* * All of us.


The Religious Right has such influence because people *let* the GOP say 'Well, we need to let them do these things to people in order to 'win,' ' ...And people who don't want to vote Democrat for whatever reason shouldn't *have* to. Conservative people can say *"No. Can the bigotry and give us some *real* candidates* we're not going to vote for that.*" otherwise you're just enabling the use of minority-abusing agendas for some other purposes.

By the same token, if people *actually* did that, then the Democratic party wouldn't be able to take so many minorities for granted while not doing enough to *fix* the raw deal the 99 percent are getting.

The time to be disaffected is *before* these campaigns get this way. The GOP uses these tactics, and NOM makes so much money dividing us and harming our liberty, ... because their own voters (and the non-voters) *let them.*

It's not going to change, never mind stop getting worse for women, minorities, and common folk, as the GOP plans, if you let them tell you 'you have to elect bigots,' ....and you give them your money and compliance *anyway.* ---- That's why they're *using* the persecution of others to gain money and power. It's kind of non-optional for us to stand up for our own rights in the face of this, but the way to take this stuff off the table and get something *real* done instead of suppressing the people, is to *guarantee those rights.*

I'd just as soon get on with it. I've already lost a lot more time than I'd rather have spent just trying to get to square one.

[magkelly]

It's imperative that you do vote for Obama. A Santorum or Romney presidency is what will happen if disillusioned progressives don't vote! Why so despondent about Obama though?

If you have to ask you haven't been watching the man closely enough. I didn't believe him from the get go and I still don't trust him as a politician. He's flip flopped on so many things it's not even funny. He always tells the American public what they want to hear then eventually does what he really wants. Overall he's been a very weak President in a lot of ways. I'm not saying there haven't been far worse but no way he's worth re-electing. Problem is the only alternatives are so much worse it makes him look positively great by comparison. He's not. It's just that everyone likely running against him is totally f-g insane.

I don't believe in the political system at all here. It's wrecked and corrupt and my vote, no matter how many times I use it, is worthless. Same thing with my money. Chick Filet, Shapes etc they will still exist, still support all the things I loathe, whether I end up there with my parents once in a while or not. I've tried voting with and without my wallet. It accomplished nothing. I counted for nothing. Anyone who actually believes that the individual voting actually matters isn't facing reality.

Fact, you can vote all you like and in the end the politicians and corporations can and will do what THEY want, what works for their agenda almost every darned time. Money rules. Special interests rule. Corporate greed rules. Nothing changes unless they want it to and they will tell you anything you want to hear to get themselves elected, keep the peace, keep the money coming in. That's the reality of politics in America today. No offense but I think it's naive to think otherwise.

[ihasa]

I don't think it's fair to call Obama a 'flip-flopper' when you consider the Republicans control congress, and the toxic environment he's working in. Poor guy can't even negotiate properly on the international stage without being accused of caving in to America's 'geopolitical foes'. 'Geopolitical foes' lol... what a disgrace to politics Romney truly is. Obama had a progressive mandate from the people, but the opposition kicked in from day one, and it was ugly. I do sometimes wonder if a less able, but white, President with a WASPish sounding name might have been able to achieve more of their objectives. Even a female one. Obama's a great President but he's hobbled by his ethnicity and 'Arab-sounding' name.

[Ratmagiclady]

I don't really buy it, Mags: yes, the GOP's obstructionism and the corporate media's presentation of what's been going on is *meant* to suppress the votes of thoughtful people through that *very* frustration and disillusionment *they* created.

Obama not having gotten *enough* done in the face of things is a far cry from the other side's actual press to actively make things worse... And use bigotry and injustice to do it.

Trust me, no one's more frustrated than me about the relative lack of progress we've seen during this administration, but it's also, for one, letting people sell short what actually *has* been accomplished despite it all.

And at the very least, regarding this topic, there's weighing Obama perhaps not having turned out to be quite so *fierce* an advocate for social equality as he claimed, ...against the active and aggressive hate and bigotry the other side is working and has worked so hard to *intensify and redouble.*

Like I said, if you want things to change, then people like you, and others of whatever political and economic ideologies, ...actually have to for one, say no to what the bigots do to gain power... If justice is established for all Americans, particularly LGBT people and women, then these 'wedge issues' and the very real harm it does us *won't* be a) Just part of the GOP 'package,' and b) Won't mean the Dems actually can take LGBT-friendly and womens' votes for granted by mere dint of being the side not pushing aggressive oppressions. That'll mean they, too, have to work for it more.


Cause however real the effects and threats to our lives and freedoms may be, these 'wedge issues' are also a prime mechanism *to* disillusion and suppress people, ...and they use that *very thing* to manufacture the political and economic situation that hurts this country and the world so much. If nothing else, vote against these bigots. For your own sake, if not mine.



Addendum: Speaking of why NOM has been trying to keep its donor lists secret, claiming some mirage of fear of 'gay terrorists,' ...guess who donated 10,000 to NOM through a sneaky move via a PAC in Alabama, in one year alone in trying to remove civil rights from Americans via Prop 8?

Mitt Romney.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/30/mitt-romney-gay-marriage_n_1391867....r=Gay%20Voices