[jsherman999]

.

[Parallax]

I would certainly like to believe that's true. Might be a tough sell to the Westboro Baptist church congregation though.

[Nesster]

I would certainly like to believe that's true. Might be a tough sell to the Westboro Baptist church congregation though.

nah, they simply add "... in hell"

[grhazelton]

As an agnostic of many years standing I must say that I'd like to shake Pastor Tom Tate's hand! He's my kind of Sky Pilot.

Parallax, Brother Tate might well have had Westboro Baptist Church in mind.

[Northern Soul]

I thought 'God' loved us all in a way we can't comprehend (in the way that means he had his son murdered so he would allow himself to forgive us) - it's a special kind of love that is so deep and perfect that if we don't believe in him (and he's hiding the evidence - it's all about faith) then he will allow us to suffer for all eternity.

Did I misunderstand at Sunday School?

[Ash]

God loves us. It's done. We don't have to do anything to receive it other than to accept it. It is all out of mercy that we as undeserved human beings have access to this love. Goes back to the thread previously on the forum of what we deserve...

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/political-religious-discussion/144673-wha...serve-why.html

But we can't quantitate God's love. It's there for the most hardened of criminals as much as it is for the most recognised of saints.

[ihasa]

As an atheist I think it's a sweet sentiment, but ultimately it doesn't matter much to me what an imaginary God thinks of me. It is very nice, and refreshing, to see a church valuing kindness over hatefulness though. I always understood this was a key part of Jesus's teachings, but apparently the church is either amoral (God's love is unconditional) or outright hateful and morally backwards.

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Last edited by ihasa; 04-07-2012 at 05:04 AM.

[Ash]

I can see how it can be deduced that Christians no longer have to care about morals since it is their belief that God forgives all their sins anyway. But this can't be further from the truth of the very scriptures Christians say they believe in: "What shall we do with grace? Keep sinning? Definitely not. Just as God has forgiven all your sins, you must therefore turn away from sin and live according to God's commandments." And Jesus said a number of times that if a believer loves Him, then they should obey God's commandments. It's the unfortunate reality of the Christian not living up to a respectable standard in this regard that others seeing the Christian behaviour from the outside easily see the flaws and holes in the morals, attitudes and belief systems of the Christian, and as such Christianity, God and Jesus are blamed for it all.

[elho_cid]

replace the word GOD with my nickname. the statement will be true and no one will consider it controversy.

[ihasa]

I don't know about the theosophising of it, but my Christian upbringing made me see Christ, and figures like the good Samaritan, as role models for how to think and behave towards others. My problem with the church's approach to morality is that it is often inflexible. Jesus taught that dogmatic moral codes, often hypocritically applied, could be subject to reason and kindness. The Quakers strike me as one Christian group who have picked this idea up and run with it. The Catholics are at the other end of the spectrum.

[magkelly]

The whole reason I never got too much into personally accepting Christianity, Islam, or Judaism is this whole idea of certain people being more loved by God. No offense to anyone who believes otherwise, you're entitled, but to me that's just utter elitist BS. I can believe in a creator or creators that love everyone equally but most of the monotheistic religions just really make me gag sometimes reading their literature. I can't see Jeshua of Nazareth in half of what's being taught in the Christian Bible honestly. The whole religion seems far more Pauline based than Jeshua based to me. The OT with all it's brutality that's just UGH! I've read most of the literature from the big monotheistic religions, studied it thoroughly. The more I read the more the fact that anyone could buy half of it is incomprehensible to me. Like I said people are entitled to believe what they want but that idea of "God" that is so foreign to me that I just can't go there...

[metaglypto]

Matthew 6:14-15

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Clear enough?

[tuco]

I thought 'God' loved us all in a way we can't comprehend (in the way that means he had his son murdered so he would allow himself to forgive us) - it's a special kind of love that is so deep and perfect that if we don't believe in him (and he's hiding the evidence - it's all about faith) then he will allow us to suffer for all eternity.

Did I misunderstand at Sunday School?

Hard to say. He reportedly wiped out all from the earth the men whom he created as well as beasts, creeping things and birds of the sky because he was sorry he created man but he favored a few people. Then yet another miracle. The otherwise impossible genetic diversity in the human genome in only 4000 years of inbreading starting from only the family of Noah.

[ihasa]

Matthew 6:14-15

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

Clear enough?

This is clear as crystal, and as beautiful too. But I think what Magkelly is saying, is that many times, Christianity doesn't practice what Jesus preached. For example, the church supported sentencing homosexuals to death in the past - and apparently the Catholics still do, or at least don't want to oppose the practice:

"This week the Vatican's permanent observer to the United Nations, said the Holy See would oppose a resolution that would protect gays from being killed, just because they are gay because it would "add new categories of those protected from discrimination" and could lead to reverse discrimination against traditional heterosexual marriage.

The French resolution, scheduled to be proposed this week, recommends protecting Gays and Lesbians from being jailed or killed because of their sexual orientation and is being introduced to the UN on behalf of the European Union.

But Archbishop Celestino Migliore said, if adopted, the resolution would create “new and implacable discriminations," and also said that states which do not recognize same-sex unions as 'matrimony' will be pilloried and made an objects of pressure.

However, the French resolution, which is supported by all 27 members of the European Union, says absolutely nothing about gay marriage; it is about ending jail and death penalty sentences gays yet face in more than 85 countries including Afghanistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Sudan and Yemen where you can still be killed for being gay."(LGR)

I appreciate most churches do not take such extreme positions these days and I would argue that is because they use reason alongside their interpretation of scripture, rather than perpetuating dogmatic positions.

[Ash]

It's the Christian that falls short of Jesus's teachings, and as such the Christian, as Christianity's ambassador, brings an unwarranted bad name to God. It is up to us to discern between the imperfect Christian and the perfect Christ. This recently produced lyric got tens of millions of hits on YouTube and numerous backlashes from both the Catholic church and atheists, but it does challenge our thinking as to what the Bible is REALLY teaching Christians to be, and how religion has caused us to stray AWAY from God despite the Christian believing he/she is doing good deeds for God:

You Tube

You Tube