Can they really do this?

MRRiley · 01-15-2008, 12:00 PM

I'll chime in here to agree with Stewart and PDL...

Ford has a leg or 3 to stand on here. The main issue is not so much that the images simply contained Ford Mustangs but that they were the unquestioned subjects in those photos and the calendar was being published by an unofficial fan club using the Mustang name.

If this had been a landscape calendar by the "Big Sky Club" and some of the photos incidentally had Fords or Dodges or Chevys in them as minor elements there likely wouldnt be much of a problem. However the image of the car is being used to promote and profit a non-affiliated fan club.

Heck, Pentax could complain if Adam started selling a Pentax Camera calendar.

Last edited by MRRiley; 01-15-2008 at 12:13 PM.

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-15-2008, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by OniFactor

so, each time a car magazine wants to run a 5 page spread on Mr XYZ's hot customized 197x Ford Burrito, the magazine has to go through all the legal motions to contact ford and make sure it's okay? i doubt it.

No they don't have to, they are reporting on Mr XYZ's customization not the only the Ford.

Quote:

this is just a case of ford having a right to do something, but it's not helping anyone. i mean, seriously, that's like some movie star suing someone for starting a fan club. guess how many fans are gonna be left, after that? all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot.

No, I disagree, any orginization needs to have its name registered. Ford for example own the Mustang name, so a fan club using that trademarked name wouold legally need to get Ford's permission.

Let's look at another related issue. Ford promoted Shelby Mustang's in the late 1960's. They also used the Cobra name and symbols, but in the late 1970's or early 1980's Crysler came out with a Shelby model, how could they do this? easy, Ford never owned the Shelby name. That belongs to the Shelby American Car Company, who manufactured modified Mustangs, with Ford permission, in the 1960's.

incitatus · 01-15-2008, 12:57 PM

Ford is totally in the right here. Of course you can't go around publishing their copyrighted material. I don't go around selling copies of the Beatles albums as my own work simply because I deleted the last track.

why are people surprised at this?

Mechan1k · 01-15-2008, 02:38 PM

I guess they could have cloned out the badges on the vehicles for a start ... this may have helped initially.

fomocona · 01-16-2008, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Gaelen

I stumbled across this thread on one of my car club forums....It's interesting to see that ford actually tried to stop someone from producing their own photos

2008 BMC Calendar - NOT Available due to Ford - See Inside! - Black Mustang Club Forums

I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen.

MRRiley · 01-16-2008, 09:01 AM

Originally posted by fomocona

I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen.

That is great to hear fomocona... I think many of us here would agree that it would have been a poor PR move on Ford's part to actually prevent the calendar from being published, but legally you were probably within your rights. Congrats on taking the high road and remembering that your customers are the reason your company thrives.

OniFactor · 01-16-2008, 09:31 AM

Originally posted by MRRiley

That is great to hear fomocona... I think many of us here would agree that it would have been a poor PR move on Ford's part to actually prevent the calendar from being published, but legally you were probably within your rights. Congrats on taking the high road and remembering that your customers are the reason your company thrives.

see, this is the point i was trying to make. if ford had continued to say that they, the customers, weren't allowed to celebrate and praise the ford vehicles they bought and love, these people would learn that the company producing their vehicles may not be worth the praise

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-16-2008, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by OniFactor

see, this is the point i was trying to make. if ford had continued to say that they, the customers, weren't allowed to celebrate and praise the ford vehicles they bought and love, these people would learn that the company producing their vehicles may not be worth the praise

That may be, however there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things.

The fact that Ford took a reasonable approach, once the situation was identified, discussed and some agreement reached, does not and should not set the model of how to do things.

I'm sure that all Ford wanted to do was to insure that the use of thier name was consistent with thier policies. The way to get this approval however, should not be to just go ahead and do something, then complain when it is stopped legally, so the owner of the copywrited or trade marked material can insure their rights have not been violated.

Just wait until someone steals one of your photos!

PDL · 01-16-2008, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by fomocona

I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen.

What do you want to bet that the club is better off now? Now they have the ear of someone at Ford and at least they have someone to connect with. I also bet that next year - the club will vet their calender with the approval of the company.

Gee - good things happen when you just ask.

Aside - my first car was a 1964 1/2 Mustang - 260 V8, three speed - 5 bolt 13" wheels no alternator. During the "gas" issues of the late 70's and 55 mph speed limits (I put 14" mags with radials on it) I was getting in the mid 30's for miles per gallon. That car was so much fun.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

**Lowell Goudge** · 01-16-2008, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by PDL

Aside - my first car was a 1964 1/2 Mustang - 260 V8, three speed - 5 bolt 13" wheels no alternator. During the "gas" issues of the late 70's and 55 mph speed limits (I put 14" mags with radials on it) I was getting in the mid 30's for miles per gallon. That car was so much fun.

The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

Letsgo off topic. My first car was this one's cousin, 64 falcon convertable. Same power train. dropped a valve and the engine didn't like it very much, broken piston, cracked cylinder walls.....
after several months of sulking, stumbled across a 351 4bbl. if you thought a 260 was fun, just double the horsepower and see how fast things go.

PDL · 01-16-2008, 04:22 PM

OK - off topic.

Putting a few hundred more pounds of cast iron in the front of a mid 64's car did nothing but make the thing a straight line hog. Try going around a corner - it's like driving a bus. My friend at the time had a 68 Camero SS (sorry to mention that name in a thread refering to Ford's) and yes, it would blow the doors off in a straight line. It could not catch me on a twisty course - even with power steering that thing wallowed like a Buffalo in corners.

Give me a smaller machine that can handle itself in the corners and I will let you win on the straights. But in the corner's --- those are my flashing headlights --- park it. Oh and I do not drive trucks either (the real name for SUV)

The Elitist - Formerly known as PDL - Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Gaelen · 01-16-2008, 06:29 PM

Originally posted by fomocona

I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen.

I'm glad to hear it got cleared up, I know the image of ford itself(cars included) is of course property of ford, I had just never stumbled across a company that didn't want to let it's owners enjoy their cars such as in the use of a calendar.

I'm glad to hear everything is good there, Thanks for sharing that info

Myltlpny · 01-16-2008, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by fomocona

I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen.

It's rather interesting seeing two of my interests converge like this. I'm a Mustang enthusiast myself. My user ID is myltlpny, or My Little Pony, a reference to my Mustang. I've been keeping an eye on this topic on both BMC forum and the AllFordMustangs forum. The hysterics were, at times, laughable.
I deal with copyrite issues all the time in my line of work, and I'm sure many on this forum do as well. Ford's position was nothing new, nor was it out of line. The rumors and misinformation just escalated to the point where it became a huge issue for no reason. That said, I thought Ford's response directly to the forum really hit the mark with the enthusiasts and cleared the air. And judging from the reactions of other forum members was greatly appreciated. So, thanks, fomocona.

**Sailor** · 01-16-2008, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by PDL

OK - off topic.

Putting a few hundred more pounds of cast iron in the front of a mid 64's car did nothing but make the thing a straight line hog. Try going around a corner - it's like driving a bus. My friend at the time had a 68 Camero SS (sorry to mention that name in a thread refering to Ford's) and yes, it would blow the doors off in a straight line. It could not catch me on a twisty course - even with power steering that thing wallowed like a Buffalo in corners.

Give me a smaller machine that can handle itself in the corners and I will let you win on the straights. But in the corner's --- those are my flashing headlights --- park it. Oh and I do not drive trucks either (the real name for SUV)

The Elitist - Formerly known as PDL - Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

Off topic - I've gotta agree with you my friend. My first car was a a brand new 64.5 Mustang (actually, there were no 64.5 Mustangs - they were launched as 65 models) with a 4-bbl 289 and 4-spd manual (eventually it had dual exhausts with Thrush mufflers, Mickey Thompson Mags and other stuff). In '69, I bought a Mach I with a 351 - actually, I'm not sure the mill by itself added a lot of weight to the front, but the '69, while it kept the same wheel base, was big, heavy and clunky (ran like stink in a straight line, however) - of course, by today's standards (or even by those of - say - a '60's era BMW 2002 or Datsun 240Z) both cars felt pretty ponderous. Still, the '65 was more satisfying - if only Ford would have developed that light-weight car with an independent rear suspension, added the Boss 302 mill, a crisp steering sector . . . . . . well why dream, those days are long over.

On topic - glad to see Ford is willing to have pictures of its cars published. You'd think they'd be grateful given their sales figures - they need all the help they can get.

Jer

blk_chic · 01-16-2008, 10:18 PM

I am President of the Absaroka Region of the Porsche Club of America and we have run into this situation via the national club. The issue is the profit of using what is considered copyright or trademark items. We can not use the official Porsche emblem on T-shirts without the permission of Porsche. We can, however, use any pictures we take of our vehicles in newsletters, club websites, etc without problems.

You just have to be careful when you want to make a profit using an image that is protected.

01-16-2008, 07:28 AM	#20
fomocona Inactive Account Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Dearborn, Michigan Posts: 1	A message from Ford Motor Company Originally posted by Gaelen I stumbled across this thread on one of my car club forums....It's interesting to see that ford actually tried to stop someone from producing their own photos 2008 BMC Calendar - NOT Available due to Ford - See Inside! - Black Mustang Club Forums I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen.

01-16-2008, 11:42 AM	#24
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	bet they ask next time Originally posted by fomocona I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen. What do you want to bet that the club is better off now? Now they have the ear of someone at Ford and at least they have someone to connect with. I also bet that next year - the club will vet their calender with the approval of the company. Gee - good things happen when you just ask. Aside - my first car was a 1964 1/2 Mustang - 260 V8, three speed - 5 bolt 13" wheels no alternator. During the "gas" issues of the late 70's and 55 mph speed limits (I put 14" mags with radials on it) I was getting in the mid 30's for miles per gallon. That car was so much fun. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL

01-16-2008, 08:52 PM	#29
Sailor Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Coastal Texas Photos: Gallery Posts: 26,205	More Off Topic - and Some On Topic Originally posted by PDL OK - off topic. Putting a few hundred more pounds of cast iron in the front of a mid 64's car did nothing but make the thing a straight line hog. Try going around a corner - it's like driving a bus. My friend at the time had a 68 Camero SS (sorry to mention that name in a thread refering to Ford's) and yes, it would blow the doors off in a straight line. It could not catch me on a twisty course - even with power steering that thing wallowed like a Buffalo in corners. Give me a smaller machine that can handle itself in the corners and I will let you win on the straights. But in the corner's --- those are my flashing headlights --- park it. Oh and I do not drive trucks either (the real name for SUV) The Elitist - Formerly known as PDL - Now back to your regularly scheduled program. Off topic - I've gotta agree with you my friend. My first car was a a brand new 64.5 Mustang (actually, there were no 64.5 Mustangs - they were launched as 65 models) with a 4-bbl 289 and 4-spd manual (eventually it had dual exhausts with Thrush mufflers, Mickey Thompson Mags and other stuff). In '69, I bought a Mach I with a 351 - actually, I'm not sure the mill by itself added a lot of weight to the front, but the '69, while it kept the same wheel base, was big, heavy and clunky (ran like stink in a straight line, however) - of course, by today's standards (or even by those of - say - a '60's era BMW 2002 or Datsun 240Z) both cars felt pretty ponderous. Still, the '65 was more satisfying - if only Ford would have developed that light-weight car with an independent rear suspension, added the Boss 302 mill, a crisp steering sector . . . . . . well why dream, those days are long over. On topic - glad to see Ford is willing to have pictures of its cars published. You'd think they'd be grateful given their sales figures - they need all the help they can get. Jer

01-15-2008, 12:00 PM	#16
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	I'll chime in here to agree with Stewart and PDL... Ford has a leg or 3 to stand on here. The main issue is not so much that the images simply contained Ford Mustangs but that they were the unquestioned subjects in those photos and the calendar was being published by an unofficial fan club using the Mustang name. If this had been a landscape calendar by the "Big Sky Club" and some of the photos incidentally had Fords or Dodges or Chevys in them as minor elements there likely wouldnt be much of a problem. However the image of the car is being used to promote and profit a non-affiliated fan club. Heck, Pentax could complain if Adam started selling a Pentax Camera calendar. Last edited by MRRiley; 01-15-2008 at 12:13 PM.

01-15-2008, 12:30 PM	#17
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by OniFactor so, each time a car magazine wants to run a 5 page spread on Mr XYZ's hot customized 197x Ford Burrito, the magazine has to go through all the legal motions to contact ford and make sure it's okay? i doubt it. No they don't have to, they are reporting on Mr XYZ's customization not the only the Ford. Quote: this is just a case of ford having a right to do something, but it's not helping anyone. i mean, seriously, that's like some movie star suing someone for starting a fan club. guess how many fans are gonna be left, after that? all they're doing is shooting themselves in the foot. No, I disagree, any orginization needs to have its name registered. Ford for example own the Mustang name, so a fan club using that trademarked name wouold legally need to get Ford's permission. Let's look at another related issue. Ford promoted Shelby Mustang's in the late 1960's. They also used the Cobra name and symbols, but in the late 1970's or early 1980's Crysler came out with a Shelby model, how could they do this? easy, Ford never owned the Shelby name. That belongs to the Shelby American Car Company, who manufactured modified Mustangs, with Ford permission, in the 1960's.

01-15-2008, 12:57 PM	#18
incitatus Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 47	Ford is totally in the right here. Of course you can't go around publishing their copyrighted material. I don't go around selling copies of the Beatles albums as my own work simply because I deleted the last track. why are people surprised at this?

01-15-2008, 02:38 PM	#19
Mechan1k Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 2,891	I guess they could have cloned out the badges on the vehicles for a start ... this may have helped initially.

01-16-2008, 09:01 AM	#21
MRRiley Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Sterling, VA, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 6,275	Originally posted by fomocona I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen. That is great to hear fomocona... I think many of us here would agree that it would have been a poor PR move on Ford's part to actually prevent the calendar from being published, but legally you were probably within your rights. Congrats on taking the high road and remembering that your customers are the reason your company thrives.

01-16-2008, 09:31 AM	#22
OniFactor Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Binghamton, NY, USA Posts: 643	Originally posted by MRRiley That is great to hear fomocona... I think many of us here would agree that it would have been a poor PR move on Ford's part to actually prevent the calendar from being published, but legally you were probably within your rights. Congrats on taking the high road and remembering that your customers are the reason your company thrives. see, this is the point i was trying to make. if ford had continued to say that they, the customers, weren't allowed to celebrate and praise the ford vehicles they bought and love, these people would learn that the company producing their vehicles may not be worth the praise

01-16-2008, 10:00 AM	#23
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by OniFactor see, this is the point i was trying to make. if ford had continued to say that they, the customers, weren't allowed to celebrate and praise the ford vehicles they bought and love, these people would learn that the company producing their vehicles may not be worth the praise That may be, however there is a right way and a wrong way to go about things. The fact that Ford took a reasonable approach, once the situation was identified, discussed and some agreement reached, does not and should not set the model of how to do things. I'm sure that all Ford wanted to do was to insure that the use of thier name was consistent with thier policies. The way to get this approval however, should not be to just go ahead and do something, then complain when it is stopped legally, so the owner of the copywrited or trade marked material can insure their rights have not been violated. Just wait until someone steals one of your photos!

01-16-2008, 01:22 PM	#25
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,888	Originally posted by PDL Aside - my first car was a 1964 1/2 Mustang - 260 V8, three speed - 5 bolt 13" wheels no alternator. During the "gas" issues of the late 70's and 55 mph speed limits (I put 14" mags with radials on it) I was getting in the mid 30's for miles per gallon. That car was so much fun. The Elitist - formerly known as PDL Letsgo off topic. My first car was this one's cousin, 64 falcon convertable. Same power train. dropped a valve and the engine didn't like it very much, broken piston, cracked cylinder walls..... after several months of sulking, stumbled across a 351 4bbl. if you thought a 260 was fun, just double the horsepower and see how fast things go.

01-16-2008, 04:22 PM	#26
PDL Pentaxian Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: PNW USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,128	OK - off topic. Putting a few hundred more pounds of cast iron in the front of a mid 64's car did nothing but make the thing a straight line hog. Try going around a corner - it's like driving a bus. My friend at the time had a 68 Camero SS (sorry to mention that name in a thread refering to Ford's) and yes, it would blow the doors off in a straight line. It could not catch me on a twisty course - even with power steering that thing wallowed like a Buffalo in corners. Give me a smaller machine that can handle itself in the corners and I will let you win on the straights. But in the corner's --- those are my flashing headlights --- park it. Oh and I do not drive trucks either (the real name for SUV) The Elitist - Formerly known as PDL - Now back to your regularly scheduled program.

01-16-2008, 06:29 PM	#27
Gaelen Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Coquitlam, BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 749 Original Poster	Originally posted by fomocona I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen. I'm glad to hear it got cleared up, I know the image of ford itself(cars included) is of course property of ford, I had just never stumbled across a company that didn't want to let it's owners enjoy their cars such as in the use of a calendar. I'm glad to hear everything is good there, Thanks for sharing that info

01-16-2008, 08:38 PM	#28
Myltlpny Inactive Account Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Gloucester, VA Photos: Gallery Posts: 27	Originally posted by fomocona I monitor several automotive webpages on behalf of Ford and I hope you don't mind me posting a comment here. The calendar issue was a misunderstanding and it has been resolved. Ford does not intend to alienate any enthusiasts clubs and that's why we moved quickly to clear the air. For more details please see the Black Mustang Club official website BMC Calendars: Approved by Ford & For Sale! - BMC Forums - Black Mustang Club. We appreciate our loyal customers and automotive enthusiasts such as the Black Mustang Club members and Gaelen. It's rather interesting seeing two of my interests converge like this. I'm a Mustang enthusiast myself. My user ID is myltlpny, or My Little Pony, a reference to my Mustang. I've been keeping an eye on this topic on both BMC forum and the AllFordMustangs forum. The hysterics were, at times, laughable. I deal with copyrite issues all the time in my line of work, and I'm sure many on this forum do as well. Ford's position was nothing new, nor was it out of line. The rumors and misinformation just escalated to the point where it became a huge issue for no reason. That said, I thought Ford's response directly to the forum really hit the mark with the enthusiasts and cleared the air. And judging from the reactions of other forum members was greatly appreciated. So, thanks, fomocona.

01-16-2008, 10:18 PM	#30
blk_chic New Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 6	I am President of the Absaroka Region of the Porsche Club of America and we have run into this situation via the national club. The issue is the profit of using what is considered copyright or trademark items. We can not use the official Porsche emblem on T-shirts without the permission of Porsche. We can, however, use any pictures we take of our vehicles in newsletters, club websites, etc without problems. You just have to be careful when you want to make a profit using an image that is protected.