[Nesster]

There's a video to go with this
America Is Headed Toward An Age Of Descent: Edward Luce | Daily Ticker - Yahoo! Finance

To the rich and growing literature of American decline we must add, Time to Start Thinking: America in the Age of Descent, by Edward Luce. Luce, the chief U.S. columnist for the Financial Times, is British but has spent many years in the U.S. (He wrote speeches for then-Treasury Secretary Larry Summers in the late 1990s.) Like a modern day De Tocqueville, Luce took some time off to travel around the U.S. for several months. And what he saw left him profoundly concerned for the future.

He saw a middle-class being hollowed out, declines in once-great cities like Detroit, the loss of manufacturing jobs, busted education systems, and a political system paralyzed by bitter partisanship and an inability to get things done. While not predicting America's collapse, Luce is "skeptical about America's ability to sharply reverse her fortunes."
[snip]
Luce locates the problems primarily in the public sector — not the private sector. "My pessimism doesn't stem from the natural energy or the entrepreneurial abilities of the American people. I don't think that has declined," he said. "My pessimism is really directed toward its political economy, and in particular to Washington's response to the challenges." He notes that the political system hasn't dealt with fiscal and budgetary issues. Congress's failure to do "routine things, like funding infrastructure building" or provide support to the Export-Import Bank leads him to be pessimistic about the system's ability to do the big things required.

The book, whose conclusions I don't necessarily share, is an, um, lucid, reported tour d'horizon. It provides an excellent snapshot of America in 2010 and 2011, a country grappling with serious issues and unsure about its place in the world. Luce introduces us to CEOs, economists, analysts and workers who fret about the future. We meet Dan DiMicco, the "fire-breathing chief executive" of steel maker Nucor, who rails against Washington's indifference to manufacturing, Segway founder Dean Kamen, and a host of officials in Michigan. Without ideology, nastiness, or partisanship, Luce presents a well-written, insightful critique of the American system. To my mind, he doesn't give sufficient credit to the private sector's ability to adapt and prosper in a changing world, to the policy successes we have seen, and to America's continual outperformance of the rest of the developed world. (Hello, Europe! How's that austerity thing working out for you?) Still, after I put down Time to Start Thinking, I did think it might be time to start drinking.

[stevewig]

An interesting read Nesster - try some of this too:

The U. S. has abandoned its Democratic Ideals and the Quality of its Politicians is Sub-Standard

Let's talk first about the moral and political causes of American decline.

British Prime Minister Winston Churchill (1874-1965) once quipped that “democracy is the worst form of government, except for all the others.”! Indeed, democracy is a very fragile political system that can sometimes fail the very people it is designed to serve. American president Abraham Lincoln (1809-1865) defined it as “a government of the people, by the people, and for the people.”

But democracy is at its worst when an oligarchy takes control of a country's institutions and imposes its agenda. Such is the case with today's United States. Money interests, not the sovereign people, control the political system today; they control the corporate media system, they control the U.S. Supreme Court and much of the judicial system and, I would argue, they control a large chunk of the academic system.

The results are everywhere to be seen. The United States has reached levels of inequality in wealth and income that used to be seen only in some backyard third-world countries.

Another form of political corruption and of intellectual decay is the widespread refusal nowadays to abide by article VI of the U.S. Constitution. Indeed, article VI expressly stipulates that “no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.” This would seem to me to be clear enough.

Some fifty years ago, in 1960, Sen. John F. Kennedy was elected president of the United States, stating that his religious beliefs were his own personal affair and that, as an elected official for all the people, he was going to use his best judgment in his public decisions, and not be obligated to follow the diktats of any established religion, not even of his own, the Roman Catholic Church, nor its foreign Pope.

As an indication of how much the United States has regressed on the question of separation of Church and State, consider that a presidential candidate of the quality of Sen. John F. Kennedy would most likely not be elected to office today with such a stand of intellectual independence. Mind you, most of the Fathers of the U.S. Constitution could not be elected either, a clear indication that the United States has strayed away from its founding principles.

Consider what President James Madison (1751-1836) had to say about religion in politics: “The number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the Church from the State.” Do you really believe that President Madison could be elected today? Nowadays, in fact, religious zealots dominate the Republican party while some half of democrats think that a presidential candidate must have "strong religious beliefs" to be considered for public office. The only problem is that such a view is in direct conflict to what the U.S. Constitution says!

Mixing personal and official religion with democratic politics is a form of intellectual corruption. —It's dynamite. If the United States continues in the same destructive direction that many theocratic Muslim countries have followed for centuries, with disastrous results, I would not hesitate to predict that the U. S. will self-destruct.

The Decline of the United States of America: The Moral, Political and Economic Causes

[newarts]

Congress's failure to do "routine things, like funding infrastructure building" or provide support to the Export-Import Bank leads him to be pessimistic about the system's ability to do the big things required.

The evidence is that congress has done this in behalf of the plutocrats who act both directly (with what are in effect bribes to representatives) and by indirect means of misleading mass advertising and spun "news", convincing a gullible public to vote in support of the wealthy.

This is no surprise - in fact it follows logically from our liberties.

The solution is to redirect corporate and private wealth towards enhancing the general welfare.

[Medium FormatPro]

america is already three steps in.

I'm suprised there hasn't been a French Revolution here in america with what happened with all of the retirement money. I didn't expect that many americans would almost play like sheep out to pasture.

Ironically the article mentioned Detriot; which sad to say will never recover. There are only two american automakers left (some claim three until they discover Dodge/Chrysler is owned by Fiat). Even the two that are left will soon be moving a majority of their operations overseas - most likely well within a few years. Also look to see american labeled cars being manufactured in China quite soon.

The american flag is largely a symbol of the past; and beyond any chances of long term recovery

[stevewig]

The evidence is that congress has done this in behalf of the plutocrats who act both directly (with what are in effect bribes to representatives) and by indirect means of misleading mass advertising and spun "news", convincing a gullible public to vote in support of the wealthy.

.................. and more importantly, vote against their own self interest. The problem is that they don't realize this and, as their condition deteriorates, continue to blame the people who would, at least, try to improve their circumstance.

They have learned to call this socialism and therefor despicable.

[philbaum]

I agree, we're already in the decay and i find it quite depressing.

The evidence is all around. I'm not rich by any means, just a middle class retired guy, and yet i pay more taxes than Exon. Big difference is that Exon got a 140 million dollar rebate and mine hasn't come in yet. 55% of companies paid no taxes in 2010 i think it was. The average tax rate for companies is 2.3% No wonder we are in the red.

Ever since the Sherman antitrust act was repealed during the Reagan years, we see these continually growing cartels in every industry. a very few companies control their individual markets. Pharmaceuticals, oil, internet, cell phones, etc. And our politicians don't care as long as they get their campaign donations. The Koch brothers gave campaign donations to every member of the Energy Committee that supposedly regulates their industry. Are they campaign donations or bribes? Congress calls them campaign donations but they sure smell like bribes.

I'm not sure why we are at war anymore, other than it seems to make a lot of money for the contractors involved. 10 years and counting.

[eddie1960]

.................. and more importantly, vote against their own self interest. The problem is that they don't realize this and, as their condition deteriorates, continue to blame the people who would, at least, try to improve their circumstance.

They have learned to call this socialism and therefor despicable.

The fact is there is actually nothing wrong with Socialism. it's how the word is viewed (read Communism) in the context of the US. It's a cold war fear bred into what is now a few generations. The masses in the US have been controlled by fear mongering for decades now.
I'm always completely baffled when people i know in the states who most definitely would benefit from more social democratic policies absolutely argue against it like it will mean their lives will go straight to hell, when the reality is the people who lose are never the mainstream but the Rich. These same people are not only not rich but have no hope in hell of ever being rich. I just don't get it. If I was living in that system I'd be going nuts trying to change it

[eddie1960]

The evidence is all around. I'm not rich by any means, just a middle class retired guy, and yet i pay more taxes than Exon. Big difference is that Exon got a 140 million dollar rebate and mine hasn't come in yet. 55% of companies paid no taxes in 2010 i think it was. The average tax rate for companies is 2.3% No wonder we are in the red.
.

This is an absolute crime. It's at it's worse in the US but the rest of the world has followed suit to some degree. the corporations no longer take a long view on anything and just strip assets and don't invest in the name of having "shareholder value" which in itself should be a crime. Every year that passes the world is more and more governed unobtrusively by corporations. In the US they already pretty much control things. My government is heading in the same direction.
While it looked like occupy would rouse people reality was they were allowed to vent enough steam to defuse the anger and then they were shut down.
Drives me absolutely Batsh*t
IT is even worse when I then hear people bitching and complaining about the situation and when you ask how they voted you find out they don't vote because they think the system doesn't work. Well no Sh*t Sherman, it doesn't work because you aren't participating and demanding your government listen to you. Honestly if the sleeping non voting Populace ever woke up to the realities and got involved a whole lot of things would change and rather than people fearing their government it would be the other way round.

[stevewig]

This is an absolute crime. It's at it's worse in the US but the rest of the world has followed suit to some degree. the corporations no longer take a long view on anything and just strip assets and don't invest in the name of having "shareholder value" which in itself should be a crime. Every year that passes the world is more and more governed unobtrusively by corporations. In the US they already pretty much control things. My government is heading in the same direction.
While it looked like occupy would rouse people reality was they were allowed to vent enough steam to defuse the anger and then they were shut down.
Drives me absolutely Batsh*t
IT is even worse when I then hear people bitching and complaining about the situation and when you ask how they voted you find out they don't vote because they think the system doesn't work. Well no Sh*t Sherman, it doesn't work because you aren't participating and demanding your government listen to you. Honestly if the sleeping non voting Populace ever woke up to the realities and got involved a whole lot of things would change and rather than people fearing their government it would be the other way round.

Correct, the political process, with the mindless assistance or abstinence of the middle class, has been hi-jacked by the super rich and with enormous success. The rich are accelerating their wealth collection to the detriment of millions of Americans. Even Obama now, who in Canada would probably be called a Progressive Conservative is considered to be a Socialist in the USA.

That is how far RIGHT the political process has evolved.

[eddie1960]

Obama is about on par with Our current lot of conservatives whom none of us would call progressive (those days are gone the true progressive conservatives would now be part of the liberal party which is decimated. the liberal left seems to be moving to the truly progressive party the New Democrats (who were once known as the Co-operative Commonwealth Federation before splitting into 2 camps the french canadian Parti social démocratique du Québec (the dregs of which formed the Separatist Parti Quebecois) and the NDP

in the last decade there has been an ever increasing divide here as well. unfortunately the left has been split which has allowed the right to take power for the last decade.the next 3 years until the election should be interesting to see what happens (there have been calls for the NDP and the Liberals to merge - doomed to failure i think as the hard left old school in the NDP won't accept the soft right ideas some liberals have and vice versa) - what is interesting is for the first time in history the liberals are in 3rd and the ndp is official opposition for the first time. the next election at this point is the ndp's to lose and it's completely changed their public face

[eddie1960]

Correct, the political process, with the mindless assistance or abstinence of the middle class, has been hi-jacked by the super rich and with enormous success. The rich are accelerating their wealth collection to the detriment of millions of Americans. Even Obama now, who in Canada would probably be called a Progressive Conservative is considered to be a Socialist in the USA.

That is how far RIGHT the political process has evolved.

I'll also say that the way the right has dominated the process (and increasingly the whackjob extreme has had far more influence than their numbers should allow) it seems to be why many have turned away from the process. IDIOTS if they aren't happy turning away from the process won't make it better.
You need a 3rd party, we need an organized left

It doesn't help that the process has become one of 10 second sound bites with no substance

[Nesster]

Correct, the political process, with the mindless assistance or abstinence of the middle class, has been hi-jacked by the super rich and with enormous success. The rich are accelerating their wealth collection to the detriment of millions of Americans. Even Obama now, who in Canada would probably be called a Progressive Conservative is considered to be a Socialist in the USA.

That is how far RIGHT the political process has evolved.

To be fair, I don't think this process has been entirely pushed by the majority of the super rich. There are some who are outspoken and influential and not afraid to spend their money...

The ever present corporate influence is larger here - corporations, even when made up of decent, personally altruistic and socially aware people, tend towards the amoral and short term competetive advantage. One way to see history since the Industrial Revolution is as a swing between greater and lesser corporate influence. We're on the high extreme at this point...

And then there's the socioeconomic factor - one that is partly driven by the corporate profit push, but also by technology and the increasing globalization enabled by it. That is, absent common policy efforts to counter balance, for most pay has at best stagnated, bills gone up: people are squeezed.

This makes many of us more apt to listen to far right conservative argument.

At work, we put up with more and (our bosses) grub a bit more: the corporation gets a bit greedier and graspier as the workers try to find that elusive raise (or avoid another pay cut)...

At home, we go into debt or tighten our belts, usually both, and run ragged what with two working and the modern obligations of child raring (i.e. lots of scheduled activities)...

By 'we' I mean the population in general, the above trends I think are pretty well supported by evidence.

So we get a bit greedy and short sighted when it comes to money and time. We draw (false) parallels between our finances, the finances of the very wealthy, corporate finances, and the various levels of government finances. The fact that groups of people will tend to vote against their best interests when economically or socially threatened to me is pretty well documented.

And then you get the amplifier of the for-profit free press. Lever and wedge issues (the tools of politics) are amplified and repeated by the press, to where we start to full or half believe the stuff... and if one side has become more adept at this and captured the Flag, Motherhood and Apple Pie... well then, there's enormous pressure in that direction. (Surely, if liberal Democrats had seized/held onto these levers, we might be talking about the dominance of MSNBC instead of Fox, and our view of just how the rich are dominating things would be in different terms...)

In this context I was amused / depressed by a story my daughter told me: their college had just started a new core curriculum requirement - she's the first or second class under this new curriculum - which is pretty extensive and restrictive. Also many majors really can be entered every other year as some basic courses are only taught every 4 years... One of their professors talks about this and gets the kids input on what's wrong. But when he tells them they ought to speak up and make change... the kids, my socially activist, very liberal daughter included, concludes that nah, they're already locked into this, so change wouldn't help them. Never mind doing the right thing for the next bunch of freshmen, and for the college as a whole!

[riff]

The fact is there is actually nothing wrong with Socialism.

In fact we are a social species and without socialism would be long extinct. The basic family unit women, man and child is socialist and with good reason, it works. I welcome anyone who thinks they are independent to spend a few days on their own 25 miles from my house. Depending on the weather few would live longer then few hours to a few days. Good Luck Rambo!

I'm always completely baffled when people i know in the states who most definitely would benefit from more social democratic policies absolutely argue against it like it will mean their lives will go straight to hell

Ditto, it's perhaps a Stockholm syndrome variant. We are social animals any pack is better then no pack.

[jeffkrol]

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[jeffkrol]

then again......



What the Public Knows about the Political Parties | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press