[Jack]

What Obama Inherited from Bush - Obama Approval Rating » Obama Approval Rating

[joe.penn]

Ya Buddy - you soon will be hammered with toxic liberal spew and idiotic youtube video links for posting this one | can't wait this is going to be a fun thread...

[boriscleto]

Obama Didn't Create Today's Budget Deficit Problem. Bush Did. | The New Republic

Notice hoe deficits tend to go up during Republican Presidencies.

US Federal Deficit by Year - Charts Analysis

Notice the estimated deficits go down by 2012.

One other big thing happened in FY2009. Hank Paulson went before Congress and said if we don't bail out Wall Street, especially Goldman Sachs, the world was going to end.

[Medium FormatPro]

Obama also clearly knew exactly what he was getting himself into.

Here's one that is a massive issue for me; back then and also more so today - it's refered to as Extraordinary Rendition - and the united states has many hundreds - actually well over one thousand - prisoners kept in secret prisons all over the place; all without any rights - even rights to representation. and guess what; some of these people are in fact americans.

There's also Guantanamo Bay (technically a part of Cuba). Obama clearly stated over one dozen time that he would close Gitmo. Has he made literally any efforts to do so? No.

So to conclude; the united states is still worse than the enemy. The united states of america is in mass violation of a good portion of the Geneva Conventions

[jsherman999]

So to conclude; the united states is still worse than the enemy.

Which enemy are you referring to?

There are some "enemies" out there who stone women to death for imagined shame, and behead people ceremonially on videotape. I think it's safe to say Gitmo doesn't play at that level of evil.

[kswier]

There is always a need to blame somebody. Everything is clear in hindsight. It seems to me that the government (both democrats and republicans) missed some important cues, the banks should have done a better job managing their level of risk, and individuals taking out loans should have done a better job managing their risks when taking out loans. So, if you are the government blame the banks, if you are the banks blame individuals, and if you are an individual you can choose to blame either the government or the banks (having a choice is nice )

Now, give me a few minutes to grab my pitchfork...(mob face)

[Wheatfield]

Which enemy are you referring to?

There are some "enemies" out there who stone women to death for imagined shame, and behead people ceremonially on videotape. I think it's safe to say Gitmo doesn't play at that level of evil.

Lets not forget that America is not much more than 1 generation off hanging people from trees because of their skin colour, making people ride at the back of the bus for the same reason, not letting people drink from whites only water fountains, and that there are still factions within your population who see nothing wrong with this and would return to those days if they could. Perhaps that % isn't so far off the % of bad guys that you are talking about.
My understanding is that Americans still support state sanctioned murder, although it isn't televised. Most of the bad guys aren't actively involved in toppling governments that they don't like.
If the race to the bottom in the only measure you have, the the bad guys may be winning, but it's a very close race.

[Medium FormatPro]

Which enemy are you referring to?

There are some "enemies" out there who stone women to death for imagined shame, and behead people ceremonially on videotape. I think it's safe to say Gitmo doesn't play at that level of evil.

There are some enemies (the united states government perhaps ordering the military) to kill many tens of thousands of innocent civilians in places such as Iraq. And yes I assure you that Gitmo plays very close to that level of evil; and prisoners have indeed been killed during torture. Yet the united states likes to claim that it follows th letter of the Geneva Conventions - when in fact it does not.

I just want to make it very clear that perhaps before the united states starts to judge anyone - perhaps they better take a long look in the mirror. Is it any wonder that; the united states has more enemies now than it has ever had?

[jolepp]

...
There's also Guantanamo Bay (technically a part of Cuba). Obama clearly stated over one dozen time that he would close Gitmo. Has he made literally any efforts to do so? No.
...

Obama gave it a try, but congress blocked him.

President Obama signed executive orders Thursday directing the Central Intelligence Agency to shut what remains of its network of secret prisons and ordering the closing of the Guantánamo detention camp within a year, government officials said.
...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/22/us/politics/22gitmo.html (21JAN2009)

Congress voted Wednesday to impose strict new limits on transferring detainees out of the Guantánamo Bay prison, dealing a major blow to President Obama’s vows to shut down the center and give federal court trials to many of the prisoners.
...
Accomplishing that goal would be more difficult under the defense authorization bill. One of its provisions bans using its funds to transfer into the United States any Guantánamo detainee this fiscal year — even for the purpose of prosecution.

A second provision bans the purchase or construction of any facility inside the United States for housing detainees now being held at Guantánamo. The administration has proposed acquiring a prison in Thomson, Ill., for the purpose of holding several dozen detainees it says are too dangerous to release but too difficult to prosecute.
...

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/23/us/politics/23gitmo.html (22DEC2010)

President Obama on Monday reversed his two-year-old order halting new military charges against detainees at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, permitting military trials to resume with revamped procedures but implicitly admitting the failure of his pledge to close the prison camp.
...

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/world/americas/08guantanamo.html (07MAR2011)

[seacapt]

Is it possible this thread set a record for getting away from the original point in the least # of replies?

[eddie1960]

Is it possible this thread set a record for getting away from the original point in the least # of replies?

yep
Full Frame, there it's out
thread officially and completely derailed

[Nesster]

Huh, there are rails here?

But taking that argument, we have had a Republic party government since the mid term elections: the House is Republican and the Senate while nominally Democrat is effectively controlled by the Republic party's filibuster - to get anything done at all needs 60 votes, which the unruly Democrat rabble can't ever manage to get.

Indeed, while Obama is nominally of the Democrat party, he has been notably not vetoing anything sent to him by the Republic Congress.

So, how's the Repbublic Party treating ya?

[jsherman999]

Lets not forget that America is not much more than 1 generation off hanging people from trees because of their skin colour, making people ride at the back of the bus for the same reason, not letting people drink from whites only water fountains, and that there are still factions within your population who see nothing wrong with this and would return to those days if they could. Perhaps that % isn't so far off the % of bad guys that you are talking about.
My understanding is that Americans still support state sanctioned murder, although it isn't televised. Most of the bad guys aren't actively involved in toppling governments that they don't like.
If the race to the bottom in the only measure you have, the the bad guys may be winning, but it's a very close race.

You can find many bad examples here in the US still, but our historical impetus is toward freedom, openness, fairness, and tolerance. The oppressive neo-fascist, theocratic regimes that have mainly lined up against us are moving backward, not forward, and they are terrible, even barbaric at times. The Taliban's attitude and actions toward women for example, their intolerance for other religions, their use of their own religion to justify horrific acts really has no parallel in the US. We play at theocratic fascism, they continually write the textbooks.

"The U.S. is just as bad" is an example of lazy thinking, IMO.


.

[jsherman999]

yep
Full Frame, there it's out
thread officially and completely derailed

I'll bring it back on track...

What Obama inherited from Bush: A world in which Pentax has no Full Frame Camera.

Now, what does Obama plan to do about that!?!? He's made no progress in almost 4 years!

[eddie1960]

I'll bring it back on track...

What Obama inherited from Bush: A world in which Pentax has no Full Frame Camera.

Now, what does Obama plan to do about that!?!? He's made no progress in almost 4 years!

damn, if I could vote against him for that I would