Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Closed Thread
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-09-2012, 02:38 PM   #16
Veteran Member




Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Finland
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,196
Original Poster
The credit card system is an interesting example of a 'market based solution' . Then again I suspect that ultimately the trouble is that of a natural monopoly with the (central) payment clearing system. (?)

05-09-2012, 03:06 PM   #17
jac
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Clyde River, Nunavut, Canada
Posts: 2,364
I pay for virtually everything with a CIBC card. It's air miles so premium, so a yearly fee for the privilege. I can't get the seats up here unless I book around 10 months in advance since our two carriers only allow two seats on any flight including if it made a stop at an earlier point and two air miles passengers got off. I pay the card before the due date and don't pay any more fees or interest. When I pay in cash, I still pay the hidden mark- up the merchants charge to cover the margin they have to set to make up the fees charged for everyone else that didn't use cash. But I also pay for the profit some dealer made on the futures market for pork bellies in Chicago, the increase in oil prices because Wall Street got nervous about a minor incident in some obscure Middle East sheikdom and Customs fees buying on the Marketplace here from deals in the U.S. even though there's a free trade deal and the goods are used. Sucks to be me. It's Capitalism, m'dears, much vaunted in the good 'ole USA and anywhere else that wants to ride on her apron strings.
05-09-2012, 03:29 PM   #18
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,292
""That is truly an amazing idea, if you don't like them, don't use them and pay for them anyway. While you are at it, pay the grocery store for some broccoli you don't eat, too. The agreement which banks require the merchant to sign prohibits them from discounting for cash so the 2.5-6% charge just gets added to the price that everyone pays. If a merchant is offering a discount, it is breaching its agreement with the bank and subject to having its card services revoked.

So, your choice with the vast majority of merchants is 1) Don't use the card, don't get miles or reward points and don't get the float, but pay the same price or 2) use a card and get all the card benefits for which you are already paying, even if you did not intentionally choose them. Wow! I wonder if I can get that deal for my business--pay me whether you use my services or not.
05-09-2012, 03:53 PM   #19
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,292
Not at all sure about how things fly in Canada, but there is usually no problem in discounting for cash or debit cards in smaller businesses here. Some gas stations here post cash/debit and credit card prices, always cash is cheaper. Tradesman will most always discount for cash. Regarding broccoli, Thursdays in market day in the papers and you can find 20 different prices on broccoli and everything else. I just purchased a major appliance at a major store and received a major discount by signing up for their no fee credit card which I zero balanced and will probably never use again. Imagine a big discount and a credit card!

Most everything is negotiable here and cash still works fine. I even have three local restaurants that do not take credit cards along with the credit-no credit gas stations. Maybe a no credit card business at lower prices is a good marketing idea.

Choices are great because you can frequently negotiate a cash price and then use the credit card for float and points to your advantage.

Unless you can find a sharia bank that charges no interest or fees and will trade in those goats.

05-10-2012, 05:22 AM   #20
Veteran Member
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 13,666
QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
Not at all sure about how things fly in Canada, but there is usually no problem in discounting for cash or debit cards in smaller businesses here. Some gas stations here post cash/debit and credit card prices, always cash is cheaper. Tradesman will most always discount for cash. Regarding broccoli, Thursdays in market day in the papers and you can find 20 different prices on broccoli and everything else. I just purchased a major appliance at a major store and received a major discount by signing up for their no fee credit card which I zero balanced and will probably never use again. Imagine a big discount and a credit card!

Most everything is negotiable here and cash still works fine. I even have three local restaurants that do not take credit cards along with the credit-no credit gas stations. Maybe a no credit card business at lower prices is a good marketing idea.

Choices are great because you can frequently negotiate a cash price and then use the credit card for float and points to your advantage.

Unless you can find a sharia bank that charges no interest or fees and will trade in those goats.
Yep, lots of places discount for cash. mostly smaller local businesses versus big chains. since almost all the big chains are also foreign (ie US) owned you actually do more good shopping at the local guy. you get a discount for cash and you keep all profits local. double benefit.
There are quite a few restaurants here who are fighting fees (my favourite local restaurant will take a card but he charges you a surcharge now - he started this when the banks began charging a sliding scale fee. If you use a high rewards card they charge the business a bigger fee - PO'd him so much he started a local campaign against card use and is very vocal about it)
05-10-2012, 06:03 AM   #21
Veteran Member
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,830
QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
Not at all sure about how things fly in Canada, but there is usually no problem in discounting for cash or debit cards in smaller businesses here.

Most everything is negotiable here and cash still works fine. I even have three local restaurants that do not take credit cards along with the credit-no credit gas stations. Maybe a no credit card business at lower prices is a good marketing idea.

Choices are great because you can frequently negotiate a cash price and then use the credit card for float and points to your advantage.
If you are getting discounts from a merchant who takes cards, it is because a merchant is breaching an agreement and playing with fire. Very, very few retail merchants can afford to refuse credit cards these days. Supermarkets were a holdout for a while because their margins on groceries are thin, but now they all take cards and the cost raises their price. Costco is about the only big chain that still refuses them, and it is one reason I will shop there. The bank agreements prohibit discounts, and they are not negotiable. There is very little choice, unless a merchant wants to be in violation of his agreement. You could say that you have a "choice" about paying tax because some "tradesmen" will take cash, not pay taxes and violate the law, but that is not a realistic description.
05-10-2012, 07:03 AM   #22
Veteran Member
Nesster's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 13,072
Look at it another way: the credit cards are giving the merchants 'free' extra profit margin for all non cc purchases. This is a job creating measure, and compensates for the extra cost of keeping cash on hand, hiring reliable and honest cashiers (and surveillance of them), and having to deal with the risk of robbery.





....as a matter of fact, just maybe the cc's are saving you money, net. This because their use encourages greater voulme of sales, which in turn reduces inventory costs, thus allowing the merchant to provide better prices.


Last edited by Nesster; 05-10-2012 at 07:18 AM.
05-10-2012, 12:29 PM   #23
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,292
Gene "f you are getting discounts from a merchant who takes cards, it is because a merchant is breaching an agreement and playing with fire. Very, very few retail merchants can afford to refuse credit cards these days. Supermarkets were a holdout for a while because their margins on groceries are thin, but now they all take cards and the cost raises their price. Costco is about the only big chain that still refuses them, and it is one reason I will shop there. The bank agreements prohibit discounts, and they are not negotiable. There is very little choice, unless a merchant wants to be in violation of his agreement. You could say that you have a "choice" about paying tax because some "tradesmen" will take cash, not pay taxes and violate the law, but that is not a realistic description".

That does not clarify how gas stations here can advertize cash and credit price differentials and have been doing it for years. If they can do it any merchant can do it. Smells a bit like the old fair trade pricing laws that were smoke for price fixing. A merchant owns his inventory and he can give it away if he so chooses, I think that is fundamental. What a tradesman does with his cash or any merchant for that matter is outside of any transaction I make with them. Your comment was a large leap into assumed fraud for most all cash transactions. I think not.
05-10-2012, 01:52 PM   #24
Veteran Member
GeneV's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Albuquerque NM
Photos: Albums
Posts: 9,830
QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote
Gene "f you are getting discounts from a merchant who takes cards, it is because a merchant is breaching an agreement and playing with fire. Very, very few retail merchants can afford to refuse credit cards these days. Supermarkets were a holdout for a while because their margins on groceries are thin, but now they all take cards and the cost raises their price. Costco is about the only big chain that still refuses them, and it is one reason I will shop there. The bank agreements prohibit discounts, and they are not negotiable. There is very little choice, unless a merchant wants to be in violation of his agreement. You could say that you have a "choice" about paying tax because some "tradesmen" will take cash, not pay taxes and violate the law, but that is not a realistic description".

That does not clarify how gas stations here can advertize cash and credit price differentials and have been doing it for years. If they can do it any merchant can do it. Smells a bit like the old fair trade pricing laws that were smoke for price fixing. A merchant owns his inventory and he can give it away if he so chooses, I think that is fundamental. What a tradesman does with his cash or any merchant for that matter is outside of any transaction I make with them. Your comment was a large leap into assumed fraud for most all cash transactions. I think not.
I've read the agreements. Have you? It is not a leap, but the truth. A merchant cannot do anything he wants with his inventory if he has signed an agreement to do otherwise. That is called "freedom" of contract.

Gas stations have given discounts off their own credit cards for years, but if they are discounting for not using MC/Visa, they could be headed for trouble. This has been happening in some areas, and it was to be the subject of the financial reforms proposed after the crisis. It would only be through those regulations that the contract could be negated.

Last edited by GeneV; 05-10-2012 at 02:03 PM.
05-10-2012, 11:08 PM   #25
Moderator
Loyal Site Supporter
Wheatfield's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: The wheatfields of Canada
Posts: 15,902
QuoteOriginally posted by Phil1 Quote

That does not clarify how gas stations here can advertize cash and credit price differentials and have been doing it for years. If they can do it any merchant can do it. Smells a bit like the old fair trade pricing laws that were smoke for price fixing. A merchant owns his inventory and he can give it away if he so chooses, I think that is fundamental. What a tradesman does with his cash or any merchant for that matter is outside of any transaction I make with them. Your comment was a large leap into assumed fraud for most all cash transactions. I think not.
They can advertise and do whatever they like until the credit card companies they have breached agreements with decide to take them on for it.
05-11-2012, 03:13 AM   #26
Veteran Member
Nesster's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NJ USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 13,072
Unless of course the oil companies have a side deal going
10-04-2013, 07:10 AM   #27
Loyal Site Supporter
Loyal Site Supporter
grhazelton's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jonesboro, GA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,970
QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
Actually I don't have any goats, but maybe I can come up with a sheep , how much change will I get from that?
Sheep are a bad medium of exchange. Everyone gets fleeced!
Closed Thread

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
card, cards, credit, customer, fees, premium, process, retailers, transaction, tribunal
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
News 2Checkout - an alternative to PayPal Donations - Donate via Credit Card Adam Site Suggestions and Help 3 04-30-2012 07:20 PM
Extended warranty for your Camera equipment through your credit card dr_romix Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 11-01-2011 07:44 AM
Debit card fees--benefit of regulation GeneV General Talk 20 08-23-2011 05:39 AM
Credit card hacked ChrisPlatt General Talk 4 12-16-2010 07:30 PM
What happens if you cancel the credit card that you use on your paypal rustynail925 General Talk 8 09-06-2010 07:18 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:02 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top