[VisualDarkness]

it is about respect. every free job I ever did wound up biting me one way or another... when people pay, they also pay you some respect.
Nobody ever offers to pay you more than you ask for, so if ask for zero, they'll treat you like a zero.

I've been treated with great gratitude and people are really thankful for my work. They also work for free so why would they treat me any less for it?

I've done a lot of pro bono work over the years - generally computer-related work & some photography, and some more blue-collar stuff - and have never been treated with anything less than gratitude and respect. You reap what you sow.

The only real problem as I see it is that you often want to do even more photo work to do people happy but the time is limited. They do what they can and can afford to keep me coming to the games and why should I be able crave money (which in first place even isn't there) when people around me does a lot more work for the teams without earning anything? Well, camera stuff is expensive but so is the transportation and the hours of work almost every day too that others are putting down.

That's a shame. If they make money off of it, so should you. Sadly, many pro photogs are a surly & jealous lot.

Yeah, I feel ok with "giving" pics to teams etc that isn't really commercial, but I hesitate a bit when it comes to profit seeking newspapers.
By the way, why do so many pro 'togs seem so rejecting of amateur/enthusiast photographers? I rarely get even a nod back, or barely even a look" when saying hello to people from the press.

[RioRico]

Some other photographic no-no's:

* I don't aim a camera at people pointing weapons at me, or who might do so.
* I don't stop to photograph unrestrained slavering animals lunging at me.
* I don't photograph out car windows when I'm driving faster than 35mph.
* I don't step to the edge of a crumbly cliff and aim the camera downwards.

In other words, I seriously try to avoid serious physical harm. (That's why I avoid weddings, too.) Everything else is fair game, unless it's just too boring or wrenching. (And I'd have to work to maintain cool detachment in some cases.) Recording some scenes of human misery or nastiness might call for discretion with the camera used -- a P&S may be more prudent than a big dSLR.

But that's me. I have no ethical problems with shooting. Your mileage may vary.

[RioRico]

Some other photographic no-no's:

* I don't aim a camera at people pointing weapons at me, or who might do so.
* I don't stop to photograph unrestrained slavering animals lunging at me.
* I don't photograph out car windows when I'm driving faster than 35mph.
* I don't step to the edge of a crumbly cliff and aim the camera downwards.

In other words, I seriously try to avoid serious physical harm. (That's why I avoid weddings, too.) Everything else is fair game, unless it's just too boring or wrenching. (And I'd have to work to maintain cool detachment in some cases.) Recording some scenes of human misery or nastiness might call for discretion with the camera used -- a P&S may be more prudent than a big dSLR.

But that's me. I have no ethical problems with shooting. Your mileage may vary.

[Medium FormatPro]

I don't photograph out car windows when I'm driving faster than 35mph

Just an FYI; that in some states (not all) that one can lose their license for a time if taking photographs from the drivers position of ANY moving vehicle. I once saw a college student take a flash photograph from the passenger side of a vehicle; also causing an accident. You wouldn't want to begin to believe what the damages and fines were on that one?

[LaurenOE]

This thread reminds me of...

"A woman without her man is nothing".

or

"A woman, without her, man is nothing".

So the thread title "As a Photographer" makes me think, "When am I as a photographer?"

I am only a photographer, when I pick up my camera. When I pick up my camera I am usually in a location. What I see is based on where I am. I don't always get the choice of what I see or what I photograph. What I will and won't do "as a photographer" is therefore based on the situation I find myself in.

I have taken images and had people put themselves in my images, without much input from me. Events have unfolded infront of me, where I have been merely there - at a specific time and place - and captured the images.

With that said, my locations and situations dictate the image *for* me, and when I am "as a photographer" is fluid as to what I will do.

I have placed myself in situations where I did not fully conceptualize what I would be taking pictures of, but did so. Some things can't be unseen or unexperienced.

I therefore limit where/what/when I am "As a photographer" so that I don't regret the images I took - and that doesn't always work out.

Looking back, there are images where I wonder how I survived or what was I thinking, that in hindsight, is 20/20.

[magkelly]

In other words, I seriously try to avoid serious physical harm. (That's why I avoid weddings, too.)

ROTFLOL my twisted brain, reading that I just had visions of a bridezilla chasing some poor photographer with the cake knife. I think maybe Rico meant the stress factor but "serious physical harm" that image just came to mind for some reason....

[vonBaloney]

Ran across this a few minutes ago:

Faces of Addiction Photography Series

Exploitative or art or both? I like them, and they do include some bit of story about each person.

[Shameless plug: I only ran across this feature because the blogger just featured the photography of the wife & I today in the Photographers section. Nice blog all-around.]

[eddie1960]

ROTFLOL my twisted brain, reading that I just had visions of a bridezilla chasing some poor photographer with the cake knife. I think maybe Rico meant the stress factor but "serious physical harm" that image just came to mind for some reason....

last year i almost experienced that If I had a k5 instead of a K7 i'd have a shot for it too . the way bride was holding the knife beside her to cut the cake looked like something out of a horror movie, tried to get the shot but it turned out crap thanks to light (and i had on a mf lens and was shooting @ 1.4 available light GRRR sometimes i wish all my lenses were new fast af lenses so pttl worked) it was a friends wedding so i wasn't in (much) danger and she actually wished I'd gotten the shot (I was the only one who caught it)

[VisualDarkness]

Ran across this a few minutes ago:

Faces of Addiction Photography Series

Exploitative or art or both? I like them, and they do include some bit of story about each person.

[Shameless plug: I only ran across this feature because the blogger just featured the photography of the wife & I today in the Photographers section. Nice blog all-around.]

Why would that be exploitation? Drug addicts are people and sick people are still as equal as when they were healthy. I've talked to people who have been in projects that even incorporates that you live with homeless for a week or so and the worst thing both they and the homeless talk about is the feeling that people ignore you. They don't need more of the quickly scanning stares that tries to ignore the persons when a smile and a hello from a stranger may be the first one in weeks. The question "I asked her how she wanted to be described" is one of the most respectful things you can ask a person in a tough situation in life and really won me over to the bloggers side.

Also when waiting and riding night buses I've sitting besides old and present drug abusers and one thing has always been true, they want to talk. Sure it gets uncomfortable at moments but you learn a lot about the people around you and mostly you even get a "thank you" for just being there listening. Is that really exploitation?

[vonBaloney]

Why would that be exploitation? Drug addicts are people and sick people are still as equal as when they were healthy. I've talked to people who have been in projects that even incorporates that you live with homeless for a week or so and the worst thing both they and the homeless talk about is the feeling that people ignore you. They don't need more of the quickly scanning stares that tries to ignore the persons when a smile and a hello from a stranger may be the first one in weeks. The question "I asked her how she wanted to be described" is one of the most respectful things you can ask a person in a tough situation in life and really won me over to the bloggers side.

Also when waiting and riding night buses I've sitting besides old and present drug abusers and one thing has always been true, they want to talk. Sure it gets uncomfortable at moments but you learn a lot about the people around you and mostly you even get a "thank you" for just being there listening. Is that really exploitation?

I don't think it is, but this thread and the one that inspired it has brought up the "freak show" idea -- that using homeless or third-world people in poverty, etc in order to evoke pity or just as an opportunity to "gawk" safely is inherently exploitative. They are exploitative on some level, but I think ALL photographs of people (good ones, anyway) are exploitative on some level. That's the nature of the medium. But I don't have a problem with "voluntary" exploitation (i.e. the existence of porn) -- as long as you aren't deliberately humiliating someone, or portraying innocent people in bad light without their knowledge, etc then it is all good with me. I don't see a problem with "evoking pity" either -- someone else drew a distinction between "raising awareness" and "evoking pity". They are usually one in the same -- that's how you raise awareness. There are actually a lot of truly exploitative pictures that get cheered uncritically -- those where we feel the subject deserves to be humiliated. If a politician or public figure we don't like is made to look the fool, we love it. If we happen to respect that person, then suddenly it isn't fair...

[Todd Adamson]

I've turned down a job to photograph a Newt Gingrich fundraising event.

I've turned down a job to do a topless (but "nothing showing") shot of a 17-year-old girl (it was mom's request, but...no).

I've refused to do selective color on a photo (though I have done it a few times, grudgingly).

I turned down a very high offer to do a wedding for some rich people. Not because they were rich; because it was a wedding.

Just to give you some idea....

[luftfluss]

The only real problem as I see it is that you often want to do even more photo work to do people happy but the time is limited. They do what they can and can afford to keep me coming to the games and why should I be able crave money (which in first place even isn't there) when people around me does a lot more work for the teams without earning anything? Well, camera stuff is expensive but so is the transportation and the hours of work almost every day too that others are putting down.

Yes, I agree that you often want to do more (and better) work, but like you said, time is limited. I'm guessing that you, like me and many other people, enjoy doing something that you consider is "worth doing". It is especially gratifying if you can bring a skill set that is somewhat rare in their experience. Also, I imagine you get some really good photos!

Yeah, I feel ok with "giving" pics to teams etc that isn't really commercial, but I hesitate a bit when it comes to profit seeking newspapers.
By the way, why do so many pro 'togs seem so rejecting of amateur/enthusiast photographers? I rarely get even a nod back, or barely even a look" when saying hello to people from the press.

This is purely speculation on my part, but I wonder if the reason so many photogs seem to have unpleasant attitudes (at least in my limited experience) is because of all the people who essentially say, "wow, nice camera, no wonder your pics are so good!"...?

[magkelly]

I just did that turned down my first wedding, paid. The people involved clearly thought I was nuts. Here I am a newbie pro photographer and I'm turning down by far the most lucrative offer I've gotten to date. But they really didn't offer me anything near the standard fee in the area for this. Doing their wedding would have probably put my arse in the hospital from sheer fatigue, and besides which I know the bride and groom fairly well. Neither one of them is the most easy going people in real life. Add the stress of a wedding and I'd bet they'll turn into bonafide monsters. The look they gave me when I said "no" was priceless. They thought they were going to get a bargain out of me, that sure I'd do it because I knew them, and it would be good for the portfolio. But I made that rule when I started and I'm not breaking it for them. No weddings. Engagement shots or formal portraits in studio in the finery before the wedding is as far as I will go on that one. I don't shoot the parties, the shopping, the rehearsal or the main event, ever.

[eddie1960]

I've turned down a job to photograph a Newt Gingrich fundraising event.

I've turned down a job to do a topless (but "nothing showing") shot of a 17-year-old girl (it was mom's request, but...no).

I've refused to do selective color on a photo (though I have done it a few times, grudgingly).

I turned down a very high offer to do a wedding for some rich people. Not because they were rich; because it was a wedding.

Just to give you some idea....

I would turn down all those without batting an eyelid

[mikeSF]

i was asked to shoot some portraits of a dog that some friends rescued and wanted to give away. I really don't feel the love for dogs, at all, and this was one of the ugliest dogs i ever saw. when it wasnt peeing on the floor or snapping at me, he just lay there helpless looking, and so very ugly; so i spent some time in photoshop removing the red bloodshot eyes and some of the matted fur etc. I mean NOBODY was gonna want to go near it, let alone take this thing home.
I hope that poor little guy finally found someone to love him.
About 2 years later i was asked to shoot a family portrait for a friend. when he said he wants his dogs in the pic, i said, "no thanks".