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05-21-2012, 06:05 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Gene , just because a high percentage of us believe abortion is in most cases fundamentally wrong does not mean that most of us are against birth control.
This would be why the right zingo mantra against supplying birth control as part of their health care insurance and telling people who dare talk to congressional hearings on the subject that they are sluts is such a major plank in the Conservative platform.

05-21-2012, 06:09 PM   #32
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In Ontario, 339 Doctors, specialists make more than a million a year. If that's slavery I'd probably still be living on a plantation in Georgia. Every now and then you see something really , really stupid. Really, you have to be dumb as an Ox to believe something like that.
05-21-2012, 06:18 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Wheatfield Quote
This would be why the right zingo mantra against supplying birth control as part of their health care insurance and telling people who dare talk to congressional hearings on the subject that they are sluts is such a major plank in the Conservative platform.
I think the "right zingo mantra" is more about being forced to include birth control in their insurance benefit package . This is especially true of businesses owned by churches whose doctrine prohibits the use of birth control.
05-21-2012, 06:29 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
I think the "right zingo mantra" is more about being forced to include birth control in their insurance benefit package . This is especially true of businesses owned by churches whose doctrine prohibits the use of birth control.
They were not forced. It was a contingency for receiving federal funds. They simply refused to comply with the standard that other institutions were required to meet.

05-21-2012, 09:01 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
I think the "right zingo mantra" is more about being forced to include birth control in their insurance benefit package . This is especially true of businesses owned by churches whose doctrine prohibits the use of birth control.
In other words, trying to force their narrow minded politico/quasi religious views on their employees rather than just running their business.
05-21-2012, 09:43 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by kenafein Quote
They were not forced. It was a contingency for receiving federal funds. They simply refused to comply with the standard that other institutions were required to meet.
Exactly.

The truth is the Church does not have the courage their own dogma requires - they want to be an exception.
05-22-2012, 02:44 AM   #37
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This health insurance / contraception controversy looks very strange from the outside: the other side insists giving employers a legal right to meddle with the health care of employees* on religious grounds. This is clearly using religion as a justification of a public policy decision, which should be a non-starter if "separation of church and state" is taken seriously. What is especially peculiar is trying to turn the issue on its head by using "religious freedom" (of employers) as a justification of subverting "religious freedom" (of employees) and "separation of church and state" itself.

Also, it is worth noting that there wouldn't be an issue at all, if health insurance wasn't (nominally) paid by the employer; if this was changed so that the money now going directly from the employer to an insurance company would instead be a part of salary 'earmarked' for paying the premiums, the issue would vanish (in this arrangement tax breaks would be juggled as well to get the same end result). This indicates that there is no fundamental problem: if a problem can be solved by what is essentially an accounting change with the same net result, it probably isn't much of a problem to begin with(, never mind a constitutional one ).

*Employees, such as ministers, whose job function hinges on being belivers are a special case, of course: it is unreasonable to ask a religious community to hire a non-beliver to profess the faith. Even with this special group of employees it could be argued that health care choices of individual employees are a private matter, where the employer has no business of meddling with the details or knowing about them.


Last edited by jolepp; 05-22-2012 at 03:35 AM.
05-22-2012, 02:52 AM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
It would seem that the US teachers are not especially highly paid in international comparison though:



(Teacher Pay Around the World - NYTimes.com)

As usual, the right and left aim for the wrong thing here...
The 10 Biggest Pay Gaps Between Administrators And Teachers In Indiana Schools | StateImpact Indiana
http://www.poughkeepsiejournal.com/article/20110504/NEWS02/105040340/Raises-...aces-teachers-
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/feb/06/school-administrators-pay-among-highest-in-county/

It isn't the under-paid, over-worked teachers why yes are in an union.

As usual these days, it is the BLOATED OVERPAID ADMINISTRATION that sucks dollars from our pockets and in no way educates kids.

Just as with corporations, who have become their own product (what else does 'maximize shareholder value' mean? Your job as manager is to sell stock to investors, not to build that widget), school systems have become something else... maximize parental value?

This country has a professional manager class that sucks dollars out of every enterprise.
05-22-2012, 06:24 AM   #39
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Here is another of that dying breed of old white republican men.

www.love4utah.com
05-22-2012, 06:49 AM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by seacapt Quote
Gene , just because a high percentage of us believe abortion is in most cases fundamentally wrong does not mean that most of us are against birth control.
Lack of moral turpitude and sense of responsiblilty in most cases are the cause for rampant demand for abortions. Personal responsibility and use of birth control could drastically reduce the incidence of abortions.
BTW I'd gladly see a few tax dollars go to get "Baby Daddy O' Thirty " and his eleven recepticles fixed.
Ken, telling people they are bad for having sex has never worked anywhere. Killing them for having sex was not all that successful, either. The GOP problem goes beyond abortion. One of the GOP front runners was campaigning across the country on the evils of birth control. GOP legislators around the country are trying to define abortion to include many of the most popular forms of birth control.

Last edited by GeneV; 05-22-2012 at 07:13 AM.
05-22-2012, 06:53 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by jolepp Quote
It would seem that the US teachers are not especially highly paid in international comparison though:

(Teacher Pay Around the World - NYTimes.com)
Pay does seem that far out of line, especially when you consider how short our school year is compared to some other countries like S. Korea. Spending per pupil in the US certainly doesn't lag.



This spending differential may lend some credence to Nesseter's comment about administrators. But my point is that we should be able to stay within the same budget or even reduce our budget and still get better results.
05-22-2012, 07:09 AM   #42
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Mike, the differences between the US and Finland bring a lot of things to the fore. Yes, the USA is much larger and diverse, however if business is able to function across the Pacific with all the attendant cultural issues, surely these are no longer the hurdles they were 50 years ago.

The Finnish system in many ways is very republican: lots of local autonomy and accountability. There really is no education bureaucracy. However, the system is also socialized, i.e. private enterprise doesn't get its hands on the cash pipeline.

Teaching is a stable and respected profession, and teachers can make a living on the salaries. (Then again, there isn't the income extremes in Finland that exist in the USA. Again, I point to a parasitic managerial/legal class in the USA, one that has been consolidating and extending its influence for at least since the 90s. Like all bureaucracies, this layer creates its own needs and costs, dealing with itself at all stops of the cash train.)
05-22-2012, 08:40 AM - 1 Like   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by mikemike Quote
Pay does seem that far out of line, especially when you consider how short our school year is compared to some other countries like S. Korea. ...
It would seem that the amount of teaching hours per year in the US is the highest among OECD countries though, in particular, the teachers in (South) Korea have much less of them:



(Teacher Pay Around the World - NYTimes.com)
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