Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-22-2012, 08:35 PM   #1
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,971
Time Magazine cover

Pretty controversial cover put out by Time:

Breastfeeding cover

I agree with the quote in the article about how the kid on the cover is going to hate middle school!

05-23-2012, 12:18 AM   #2
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Stockholm
Photos: Albums
Posts: 125
I never managed to understand US public obsession with breasts (boobs, hooters or whatever you call them) or nudity in general. I mean there is hardly a nation in the world which mention God more often in any circumstances (IN GOD WE TRUST - on 1$ bill) and yet it is a taboo to show the body as the God created it acording to his own image.

Breastfeeding is the most natural thing to do, not only with humans but with all mamals. Now we can argue that breastfeeding a 3-year old a is a bit extreeme but I do not se how breastfeeding in public can bring out so much controversy.
05-23-2012, 02:55 AM   #3
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,901
Most babies wean themselves at anywhere from 18 months to 3 years old, but it's not uncommon to see toddlers doing both a bottle and solid food at 3 or even 4. What's the difference between a 3 year old holding a bottle and one reaching for a boob? That's all it is to a toddler, a human bottle for Mom's milk. People make too much of it. So long as the kid is not in pre-school or kindergarten I don't see all that much wrong with it. In fact it's probably healthier for a toddler than not. That doesn't mean I want to see some Mom just take out a boob and nurse her kid, of any age, while I'm trying to eat at the local McDonald's.

Going to the bathroom is a perfectly natural function too but I still prefer not to watch other people pee or take a dump if I can help it. I honestly feel that breastfeeding should be a private thing between a Mom and her baby/toddler, a bonding moment. Not a peep show for the whole room. Then again I feel the same way about changing a baby's diaper in public. I just don't. I go to the nearest rest room or the baby's room and take care of it. I'm really not into having kids of my own at this point. But if I did? I would never sit there in a restaurant or any other public place and breast feed. I would feel very uncomfortable actually.

Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because that's just private and not something I'd want someone I don't even know watching. For me it's almost like asking people to watch you pee. Heck I don't even go to the bathroom with a lover in the room. I don't care if a guy and I are having sex. He doesn't need to see everything I do. People who can do that use the bathroom while their lover is brushing their teeth or taking a shower are just a lot less uptight than I am I guess. I don't care how "natural" some things are. There's just some things I still like to do in private...
05-23-2012, 05:39 AM   #4
Banned




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Millstone,NJ
Posts: 6,491
Breast milk is a zillion times better than pink slime that kids eat. The reason the US is up the creek is because a healthy lifestyle is made a joke of and most Americans are fat lazy couch potatoes that go to their doctor to get handicap cards so they don't have to walk too far to get their processed junk food and prescriptions to survive.

05-23-2012, 06:22 AM   #5
Inactive Account




Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Orleans
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,053
It is pretty sad that this is considered controversial. Breast feeding, or a lack there of, is significant contributor to this nations' population's overall poor health. Not breastfeeding gives your child a poor foundation for health, results in them having more early childhood infections, greater chances at being obese (and all the diabetes, heart disease, and other complications entailed) later in life, and increases the risk they will develop allergies. Breastfeeding also reduces the mother's stress levels and reduces her risk for breast and ovarian cancers.

Maybe it would be less controversial to show how formula is made and marketed. You start with milking a cow or growing some GMO soy beans, then you pasteurize the milk, dehydrate it, mix in a bunch of chemicals, pack it, heat it to kill off any remaining bacteria, freeze it to kill off any other remaining remaining bacteria that survived pasteurization and heating, ship it hundreds of miles to the stores in states where you have successfully lobbied for a food stamp monopoly, sell it, drive it home, reconstitute it with water, and feed the mixture of chemicals to your helpless baby.
05-23-2012, 07:37 AM   #6
Senior Member




Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Stockholm
Photos: Albums
Posts: 125
Well all those mother-milk replacements are just that: replacements.

One thing that the mothers milk have which none of the replacements has (appart from comforting baby by being closed to the mother) is "living" part of mothers milk including bunch of feromones, good bacteria, antibodies so essential for development of imune system of newborns. If there is enough breast-milk then there is really no need for any replacement at all. Then sometimes (still debateable) between 4-6 months of age it is time to introduce other food sources as well...

That said I (having 2 kids myself) am by no means any fundamentalist oposing milk-replacement. When my wife went out to meet her friends I was more than happy to give our babies replacement food. On the other hand after some initial adjustments it seems that mother-baby system works so well that milk just starts pouring in time when baby starts to feel hunger. In our case the milk stopped by itself when there was less interest from our kids for breasfeeding (in one case at 7 months in the other at about 10 months of babies age).

As for privacy thing, I understand women which do not wont to show their "private" parts in public. On the other hand I do not have any controversy by eating myself in public - think about all reastaurants, fast-food chains, icecream stands etc that whould go out of busines if it would become controversial to eat in public in the first place. So if it is not controversial for adults, I really do not se any reason why it would be controversial for babies.
05-23-2012, 08:02 AM   #7
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 359
It's been a long slog over here, but breastfeeding is now fine pretty much anywhere, as it should be. I have no problems with a child being nursed anywhere - it's only a part of the body that in most of Europe is perfectly acceptable to expose on the beach or at the park when sunbathing. A simple muslin, nappy or blanket wrapped around the child and thrown over the shoulder hides the view anyway.

As has been said, there are huge benefits to both mother and child, not least not needing to sterilise and clean bottles and teats all the time. That said, I would think around three is probably the latest a child should be feeding, after that it's usually being done for the sake of the mother, not the child, even if the child still enjoys it.

Nestle are one of the most unpleasant companies on earth for their marketing of formula, which has caused countless cases of infant mortality. Their latest wheeze is to sell dairy-free coffee whitener in countries where the population is largely illiterate, but making the packaging look like a cute bear is feeding it to her offspring. Baby Milk Action I haven't bought any Nestle products for 20 years because of this, and have always urged others to boycott them as well. This is a page my sister helped set up, some more info on there. https://www.facebook.com/groups/108600352597004/

05-23-2012, 09:11 AM   #8
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
lammie200's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: San Francisco
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,033
I believe in many parts of the world breastfeeding goes until the kid is about 3 years of age. I think in the USA the average length is much shorter than 3 years. My daughter breastfed until she was almost 3. Right around that time she didn't want it anymore. Fairly easy transition.
05-23-2012, 09:42 AM - 2 Likes   #9
Site Supporter
Site Supporter
Dewman's Avatar

Join Date: May 2012
Location: Idaho
Posts: 5,492
QuoteOriginally posted by stanislav Quote
I never managed to understand US public obsession with breasts (boobs, hooters or whatever you call them) or nudity in general. I mean there is hardly a nation in the world which mention God more often in any circumstances (IN GOD WE TRUST - on 1$ bill) and yet it is a taboo to show the body as the God created it according to his own image.

.
I couldn't agree with you more, sir. The taboo you speak of is a result of "organized religion," and their obsession with anything that could possibly be considered sexual. Being of native American heritage, I look at the subject in a totally different light. Hypocrisy abounds in just about any religious cult, regardless of which country it exists.
05-23-2012, 10:30 AM   #10
Site Supporter
Site Supporter




Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rochester, MI
Posts: 147
QuoteOriginally posted by stanislav Quote
I never managed to understand US public obsession with breasts (boobs, hooters or whatever you call them) or nudity in general. I mean there is hardly a nation in the world which mention God more often in any circumstances (IN GOD WE TRUST - on 1$ bill) and yet it is a taboo to show the body as the God created it acording to his own image.

Breastfeeding is the most natural thing to do, not only with humans but with all mamals. Now we can argue that breastfeeding a 3-year old a is a bit extreeme but I do not se how breastfeeding in public can bring out so much controversy.
Yes, but what you fail to understand is that we are all slack jawed bible thumpers who refuse to evolve with the rest of the world. Probably because most of us don't believe in evolution.

But seriously though, I have zero problems with breastfeeding although like yourself I think 3 years old is too old. Once I child is old enough to grab a granola bar out of the cabinet I think its time to stop breastfeeding. However, many americans are insane, have very large mouths, and a lot of time on their hands, so unfortunately the world thinks that these people represent all of us. This is why Time prints covers like this, to shake the bees' nest.
05-23-2012, 07:57 PM   #11
K-9
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,971
Original Poster
I think trying to help sales may have drawn them to create a little controversy.

I feel 10-12 months is the limit. When the child is over 1, starts to walk and talk, it creeps me out a bit. What's further creeped me out is that the article mentions how the mother on the cover also breastfeeds her 5 year old adopted son.
05-23-2012, 10:32 PM   #12
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2010
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 5,901
QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I think trying to help sales may have drawn them to create a little controversy.

I feel 10-12 months is the limit. When the child is over 1, starts to walk and talk, it creeps me out a bit. What's further creeped me out is that the article mentions how the mother on the cover also breastfeeds her 5 year old adopted son.
5 years old is a little old for me but why should it make any difference if her son is adopted or not when it comes to breast feeding? He's still her son. End of subject. Women have been feeding children not biologically their own for as long as there has been mothers. It's pretty routine actually for women who can't provide breast milk for some reason to purchase the services of a wet nurse for a time if the baby can't tolerate a substitute for some reason. When I was a baby actually my Mom's milk dried up shortly after she gave birth and didn't return. I couldn't do formulas, either soy or the milk based kind.

I'm intolerant of soy and I have severe problems with milk based products due to severe lactose intolerance. Lactose drops/tabs don't work very on me though I can drink 100% lactose reduced milk. As a baby this was a nightmare for my Mom. Trying to get me fed sans severe colic was almost impossible sans breast milk and she just didn't have any for me. My Mom ended up hiring a wet nurse she found through the hospital. I was by necessity weaned pretty early. It was too expensive to keep on doing it for any longer than strictly necessary, but no one thought it was an odd thing to do at all.

As an adult I knew a woman in NYC who made twice the milk her own baby could use. It's not uncommon at all. She sold her extra milk all the time rather than see it go to waste. Again, the Mom benefiting was very grateful for her services. I don't think breast feeding any child you raise whether biologically your own is weird. The moment you adopt and bring a child home it's 100% yours or should be. If it's still young enough that it needs to breast feed and you've still got milk? You just do it. That's all. That's just part of being a Mom. You don't differentiate between a baby born from your own body and one born from someone else. Not if you truly love your children equally and you should really. It's just not fair to look at one child as being somehow less worthy than another even with that. Start out doing that even over a small thing like breastfeeding, ignore one small child to breast feed another, and that child will likely unconsciously know all it's life that you didn't think it deserved to be treated exactly the same as your biological child. That is so NOT a good thing.

Besides which when you think about it? It's entirely likely that the adopted kid is the one who needs that moment, that nourishment even more. Being disconnected with your biological mother early on can mess with the subconscious.You can feel abandoned your whole life and never know why. That's not something you think about consciously but creating a maternal bond with an adopted child is all that more important because you have that disconnection happening early in life. If a child is young enough to breast feed, and you have the milk and can foster that connection by doing it for a while? I'm all for it. It will probably be enormously good for that child's development actually. There's nothing in your life experience that says "This is MOM." more than sucking at a boob and getting her milk. The hormones and so forth that are passed on in breast milk just serve to strengthen that connection all the more. If you can't you just can't, but it's always better if you can. That's a biological fact. Breast fed kids usually have better immune systems than non-breast fed kids. There's a reason women have boobs and breast milk and it's not just all about convenience.

Personally I think by the time a kid is 4 you should have it weaned. That's pre-school age and no kid should be still on a bottle or a boob by then. But I have known kids who stubbornly insist upon having a bottle and a blanky till around then so I don't suppose if they're boob kids it's all that much different in their minds really. Some kids can be awfully resistant actually even into pre-school about that. It's not till they see all the other kids going sans a bottle all day that they start to feel confident and fully disregard it. Most Moms will try to get them on a sippy cup of something else by then, juice or milk if they can tolerate it. But not all kids can go there as fast as others. It's kind of like potty training. Kids have their own schedule for that and no matter how much you try sometimes one kid will lag a bit behind another. I've actually known kids in nursery school who still wear pull ups in case of accidents. It's not that they don't use the bathroom like big kids most of the time it's just that they are not fully there yet for some reason.

I personally don't believe in making a toddler stop doing something too prematurely. Just because most kids do something fairly early doesn't mean most will. As much as I am a chatterbox now I barely spoke as a little girl and I was also incredibly picky about what I ate for a long time, probably because as a baby I associated anything but my bought bottles of breast milk with having a bad stomach. I was off the bottle by maybe 2 but that wasn't my choice. I can still remember being 3 or 4 and having a babysitter who wasn't too into listening to my Mom on certain things when she wasn't there insist I had to drink cow's milk every afternoon because her own kid did and because in her mind I was too small and not eating enough to get enough nutrients in.

She also made me sit there and eat everything on my plate whether I even liked it or whether my stomach could handle it or not. Or tried to. I can still remember sitting there all afternoon with my plate and a glass of milk in front of me not wanting to eat at all because I knew that if I did I spend the rest of the afternoon with stomach cramps in the bathroom. The woman meant well but back then most people just disregarded food intolerance as kids being too picky and while I could be usually there was a reason I tended to avoid some food or another. I had some major battles with her and my Mom actually over certain things even after my they knew better. Years later my Mom would still pack stuff into my lunch that would literally make me sick after eating it. Or make me sit there with a plate of something I didn't like for several meals. She had this idea that I'd just grow out of being picky and reacting to everything if she just kept trying, I guess. It didn't work actually. I still have major issues with certain foods, but it's not just because I don't like some things.

Every child is different. Some kids they get very independent very early, get weaned, potty trained and move on. Other kids they hold on to being a baby and a toddler with everything they've got. Unless I'm sitting there raising a child myself I'm not going to make a judgement call on all that. People do some weird shiz when it comes to their kids. They give them strange names. They make them eat their own strict diets. They do or don't encourage their kids to do certain things according to their own personal preference.They try to choose their children's likes and dislikes, even their friends. People can be downright nutty when it comes to their kids. Most of the time unless it involves something really harmful I'm not even going to attempt to second guess them.

My own parents messed up with me more than I can ever say and yet I'm still here. I survived all their dumb and often selfish mistakes.I lived through their crazy thinking, their backward attitudes, and I'd like to think I came out okay. It wasn't always easy though. They embarrassed the heck out of me, still do sometimes. They both at once smothered and controlled me and ignored me in some painful ways and in my mind they even physically and mentally abused me at times out of sheer ignorance. There were some things that they did that I have a real hard time with as an adult even just thinking about them. But that's with hindsight and a modern viewpoint. I know now what they did wrong. I didn't really as a kid. Back then I just knew I didn't like what they did, said sometimes, resented it.

But if I let myself get too wrapped up in all that? I'd be in a much worse place than I am now with them and I just don't want to be there. I've got maybe a decade left with my parents if I am lucky. They're really getting up there. I made the decision a while back to just live with their mistakes and to love them anyway. Doesn't mean I'd want to make them myself though. I tend to think I'd make a better parent in a lot of ways actually but I'm sure if I ever did have a child that child would have issues with my parenting at some point too.

The kid on Time? I'm sure he'll get his share of ribbing someday about that. But then again his connection to his "weird" Mom may be so strong that he might be able to just laugh it off too. His adopted brother? Probably won't have any doubts that his Mom loves him just as much. He might be a bit embarrassed by her openness but I bet he'll be a little proud of her too for being so brave and so loving and stepping up and being the best adopted parent she can be.

No matter how you feed your children (and yes I believe Dad should definitely get in there and participate with a breast milk bottle sometimes) mealtime is always an important part of making a personal, intimate connection with your children. Most basic instinct for most creatures? Food is survival. Food is love. In my mind it takes major dedication to breast feed a child till it's 2 let alone 4 or 5. You have to give up a lot of things to breast feed actually. Just eating some chocolate or drinking too much coffee can be trouble for a baby. I can't even imagine being willing to give that up for 5 years myself but if that's a woman's thing, her toddler still wants it, and she's willing to continue to do it for that long? Who am I to step between them? When a kid's half as tall as it's Mom, needs a book bag and a lunchbox and is heading off to nursery school then maybe I'll raise an eyebrow but until then I don't really think it's all that odd...
05-24-2012, 06:17 PM   #13
K-9
Veteran Member




Join Date: May 2009
Location: USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,971
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by magkelly Quote
Breast fed kids usually have better immune systems than non-breast fed kids.
I don't believe this is true at all. While they are breastfed, they are getting the mother's antibodies in addition to their own. Their own immune system will develop exactly the same whether breastfed or not.

As far as breastfeeding the 5 year old adopted son, some were calling it molestation (not me, those responding to the article). I just think the age is way too old. We have memories from 3-4 years old and I don't think it's right for a child to grow up having a memory of that. They won't understand it fully until their teens, so why confuse them and make them have to carry that memory until they do? Not to mention the social implications if peers find out.
05-25-2012, 02:46 AM   #14
Inactive Account




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Plymouth
Posts: 359
Magkelly, I agree with all you wrote. My sister is breastfeeding at the moment and is producing too much for my niece, so she donates the excess to the local NICU where it is used to feed premature babies. Nothing at all unusual about a baby being fed by someone who's not their natural mother, same as there's nothing odd about me donating blood for those who need it. There's even a hormone treatment to enable people to lactate in the case of adoption, though some women find that the pheromones released by a newborn are enough to make them spontaneously lactate anyway - many orphaned babies have been saved this way throughout history.
05-25-2012, 07:42 AM   #15
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NJ USA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 209
QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I don't believe this is true at all. While they are breastfed, they are getting the mother's antibodies in addition to their own. Their own immune system will develop exactly the same whether breastfed or not.

As far as breastfeeding the 5 year old adopted son, some were calling it molestation (not me, those responding to the article). I just think the age is way too old. We have memories from 3-4 years old and I don't think it's right for a child to grow up having a memory of that. They won't understand it fully until their teens, so why confuse them and make them have to carry that memory until they do? Not to mention the social implications if peers find out.
On the contrary, common sense tells me this is quite true. A baby acquires passive immunity from the mother's antibodoes, which helps it to survive by fighting disease germs that it was or is most likely to be exposed to in early life. The baby's own antibodies start building meanwhile. Without any defense (aka passive immunity) at all the baby has comparatively less chance of surviving to be able to survive on the merit of its own antibodies (aka active immunity). But being not a doctor or phsyiologist my simple understating may not be fully accurate.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
cover, time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sports My magazine cover photo. Workingdog Post Your Photos! 17 09-30-2012 12:51 PM
Pentax K-01 on the cover of Stuff magazine Philippos Photographic Industry and Professionals 5 05-04-2012 08:50 PM
Magazine Cover Templates TomK Digital Processing, Software, and Printing 3 07-02-2010 08:32 PM
Magazine cover compensation dutch Photographic Industry and Professionals 8 04-09-2010 11:26 AM
Magazine front cover shot. Dale Post Your Photos! 9 01-06-2009 02:33 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:16 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top