[Medium FormatPro]

A bunch of questions that have no answer.

The first plane in NYC could most likely never have been prevented.

But the second (NYC) one could have in fact been shot down. The planes were in fact in range to shoot down if needed, but... For some reason this did not occur.

The Pentagon plane; and this is the one I've researched the most... Note the version from the united states government about the flight path. It too could have been shot down, but was not. Also about the flight path... Having over one thousand hours on hysical flight simulators... It's impossible for literally any commercial plane configuration to do the so called final downward spiral. It's literally beyond physics. Add to that;anything near that would have taken a highly experienced piot and a lot of luck on top of that. The so called terrorists had none of that. Did I mention the lack of video of that day; even though there were over fifty cameras covering it? Also what about the flight recorders?

General comparison here... Note plane wreckage remaining from the two NYC planes. Note that there's relatively none at the Pentagon. Also next to none at the Pennsylvania site.

The Pennsylvania plane... One of my closest friends has worked since the 80's for the NTSB. Yet nobody has ever seen any accident scene like that one. The so called radar tapes from seven different stations also somehow disappeared


america deserves answer and a more proper investigation. A majority of those answers have never come to light. IF they did it would change america overnight.

[jogiba]

I guess you also believe the moon landings were fake.

[normhead]

America doesn't care. Most Americans believe what their government tells then is good for them, even if it isn't the truth. And even bigger issue is taking a bunch of facts and turning them into a believe able time line. A basketball or football coach with tape of a game can take hours to break down a single play. The point where a play breaks down can turn in a split second, and everything that happens after that is a consequence. Picking out the spot where a play breaks down can take a while. Now you're talking about trying to put together different pieces of evidence that come from different places and trying to put together a time line where many of the important pieces of the puzzle don't exist. Are there holes in the 9.11 story, sure there are. Is it because someone is trying to hide the truth? I'm guessing probably not. When you have tape of Bin Laden gloating about the success operation and the perps are not even making an attempt to deny what they did, how far do you want to go to recreate your "game tape". Wouild it help the dead? Or the living? Unless you're trying to say the US was somehow involved. Everyone who followed the Kennedy assassination knows the books were cooked, something that is so damaging the documents are still classified 50 years later. Essentially that information isn't going to be released until those responsible for the cover-up are all dead. But the point is, Americans as a whole don't care and the powers that be , if there was a coverup, and it';s just not a case of not being able to figure out the missing pieces of the game tape, then the US has learned a lot since Kennedy and you're never going to get to the bottom of it. Functionally it's the same. It's like Shrodinger's cat. Only in these cases, you can't open the box. And the fact that you assume there is a box that could be opened, doesn't mean there is one. The simple way to look is, the investigators looked at all the evidence they had, and this was the best they could come up with.

But imagine this... I'm a basketball coach, trying to figure out what went wrong on a play that cost us the game, but the camera was not working and I have to piece together reports from people who watched the play, still pictures taken by random photographers who happened to there. IN one I see a player badly out of position but I don't know why he's there, or how he got from where he's supposed be to where he ended up. Will I ever know if that player was wrong for being where he was, or was there something that happened where the assignment he was given took him to that location. What are the chances I will ever know, whether he missed an assignment, or something someone else did and what he did was damage control? These incidents are way more complex than that, but the public wants closure. As a football coach I walk away and buy a better camera for next week. For the people who try to make sense of these incidents, they can't walk way. We don't allow them to walk away. We want a story. That gives us confidence. That's what we need to sleep at night.

[riff]

The Pentagon plane

Yes let's just consider this incident for now.
The damage is inconsistent with plane hitting a building. One plane takes down a wtc tower, another leaves a small hole.
Where is the wreckage, there is none consistent with a jet liner crash
Where are the surveillance tapes. If there is nothing to hide they would have been all over the media.
No one including the instructors has been able to duplicate the maneuver on a flight simulator, yet we are to believe that some hack who trained in a Cessna managed it.

These are pretty simple questions. Where are the answers

We want a story. That gives us confidence. That's what we need to sleep at night.

I suppose I do, but the official story gives me nightmares. The best they could come up with indeed.

[boriscleto]

"Truthers"

[riff]

I guess you also believe the moon landings were fake.

There is no comparison between these incidents. In fact this is completely irrelevant. Obviously something happened, the question is what and who pulled the strings.

[jogiba]

The Pennsylvania plane... One of my closest friends has worked since the 80's for the NTSB. Yet nobody has ever seen any accident scene like that one.

Give me his name. because he belongs in a group home and not working for the NTSB.


ValuJet Flight 592 crash site with DC9 and 110 people.

The first plane in NYC could most likely never have been prevented.

But the second (NYC) one could have in fact been shot down. The planes were in fact in range to shoot down if needed, but... For some reason this did not occur.

There was no fighters that was armed anywhere near the two 767's or two 757's before they crashed.

The Pentagon plane; and this is the one I've researched the most... Note the version from the united states government about the flight path. It too could have been shot down, but was not. Also about the flight path... Having over one thousand hours on hysical flight simulators... It's impossible for literally any commercial plane configuration to do the so called final downward spiral. It's literally beyond physics. Add to that;anything near that would have taken a highly experienced piot and a lot of luck on top of that. The so called terrorists had none of that. Did I mention the lack of video of that day; even though there were over fifty cameras covering it? Also what about the flight recorders?

"One of several street lights that were clipped off by the Boeing 757, AA Flight 77 in the last few seconds before impact to the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. The angle of approach is perfectly consistent with all of the eye witness accounts of the attack."

[Nesster]

You also forget the incompetent - at best - crew that was in the Administration at the time. While the Prez and his team had a hard on to get into war with Iraq, that doesn't mean they were competent and smart - and cynical - enough to 'allow' the 9/11. More so they simply had their heads up a different orifice at the time.

On the other hand, once presented with the pretext they were ruthless in driving through their agendas.

[Medium FormatPro]

There was no fighters that was armed anywhere near the two 767's or two 757's before they crashed

I can list the exact fighters'where they were. and also what they were carrying on that very day - up to about noon on the day of 9/11 at noon.


For instance there were jet fighters in Pittsburgh on that day;one F15 and one F4. Case in point; anyone know the top speed of the F-15 and also it's shoot down range with either heat seeking or radar guided missles? Also one in Charleston, but that one was only armed with it's traditional nose gun.

There were also two F-16 ANG fighters on the ground at JFK that day.

And at Langley AFB (yes it an air force base) there were three Navy fighters; an F14, F18, and I believe an A7. The A7 was the only single fighter out of that entire grouping that was not armed.

Even given that case it takes literally minutes to fully arm any of those planes.

I have statements of versions of DOD letterhead stating the same; except for that last Navy fighter. I also have written statements from people such as ground crews, FAA, etc...

So any claim that were were no jets anywhere near the area is in fact not at all correct.

ValuJet Flight 592 crash site with DC9 and 110 people

That would be the one where the plane was illegally carrying oxygen generators. The plane was already doomed in the air and there was no way iit could have survived to make it to the ground safely. It also crashed into a swamp. There can be no comparison between the Florida Value Jet crash and the event in Pennsylvania - except that they are both crashes. It's almost like comparing the Concorde crash to a Cessna incident.

No other commercial jet plane crash has less debris than the one in Pennsylvania. Somehow most of the debris just disappeared. Even though some planes have gone down at considerably higher speeds from a variety of altitudes. There is only enough debris from the Pennsylvania crash to fill up a box truck.

"One of several street lights that were clipped off by the Boeing 757, AA Flight 77 in the last few seconds before impact to the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. The angle of approach is perfectly consistent

Let me see if I've got this one right... I personally photographer the hole in the Pentagon within the first week of the event - after most of the smoke was clear. One can also look up the physical specs of that Boeing 757 plane. Can anyone please describe why the hole in the building is the size it is; and also even worse - that the plane would have been dragging it's engines long before impact - by many feet into the ground.

Again, we have video of the planes hitting the two WTC towers. Please note the results. Some of the wings and engines even made it out the other side of the towers and even all of the engines of the planes were recovered - two of them somewhat intact. One of the planes was at maximum speed that hit WTC.

What kind of debris is there at the Pentagon? The second largest piece is less than fifty pounds; so light it can be carried in one hand. Did I mention the inconsistant debris??

[Parallax]

Would you expect an order to be given to shoot down an airliner simply because it was off course? Or even because it had been hijacked?

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

[VF-19]

I have problems with your jet's on the ground:

1) You're assuming that they're ready to fly on a moment's notice
2) Modern jets require lots of time to be ready to fly, they don't turn on with one switch.
3) You're assuming that the pilots are on base, in their gear, and ready to fly.
4) You're assuming the jets are fueled.
5) Even though an F-14's (using a fighter you've pointed out) top speed is Mach 2.34 at altitude (according to Wikipedia), they can't spend a lot of time at this speed. Afterburners go through fuel like nobody's business. Most of the time, fighters spend their time in the high subsonic, just like jetliners, making them only marginally faster than a 757.

Suppose a fighter was scrambled and was able to intercept either the Pentagon plane or the second World Trade Center plane. If it's armed with sidewinder missiles (a short range missile), or even just with the gun, it will be bringing the plane down over a populated area.

[Buschmaster]

I have problems with your jet's on the ground:

1) You're assuming that they're ready to fly on a moment's notice
2) Modern jets require lots of time to be ready to fly, they don't turn on with one switch.
3) You're assuming that the pilots are on base, in their gear, and ready to fly.
4) You're assuming the jets are fueled.
5) Even though an F-14's (using a fighter you've pointed out) top speed is Mach 2.34 at altitude (according to Wikipedia), they can't spend a lot of time at this speed. Afterburners go through fuel like nobody's business. Most of the time, fighters spend their time in the high subsonic, just like jetliners, making them only marginally faster than a 757.

Suppose a fighter was scrambled and was able to intercept either the Pentagon plane or the second World Trade Center plane. If it's armed with sidewinder missiles (a short range missile), or even just with the gun, it will be bringing the plane down over a populated area.

And even if they were able to shoot them down... Is that necessarily better? And did we know that for sure at the time? I mean, I thought after the first tower was hit that it was some kind of accident. At least that was my initial reaction. Then we all basically watched live as the second plane hit and then we all knew.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but if I were to pick one I'd probably go with Courtney killed Kurt, just because she's $#$%ing nuts.

[gokenin]

Let me see if I've got this one right... I personally photographer the hole in the Pentagon within the first week of the event - after most of the smoke was clear. One can also look up the physical specs of that Boeing 757 plane. Can anyone please describe why the hole in the building is the size it is; and also even worse - that the plane would have been dragging it's engines long before impact - by many feet into the ground.

Again, we have video of the planes hitting the two WTC towers. Please note the results. Some of the wings and engines even made it out the other side of the towers and even all of the engines of the planes were recovered - two of them somewhat intact. One of the planes was at maximum speed that hit WTC.

What kind of debris is there at the Pentagon? The second largest piece is less than fifty pounds; so light it can be carried in one hand. Did I mention the inconsistant debris??

According to Boeing specs the wing span is 124 feet smaller than the overall impact size, I don't know if you have actually looked at the construction differences but the towers were designed to maximize open space inside so the floors were basically empty outside of the core in the middle and the curtain wall that makes up the exterior would provide minimal protection from impact so it's understandable that a planes debris could co straight through the towers. The pentagon however was constructed out of poured concrete with steel reinforcements and the area of the impact had recently been remodeled with increased defensive materials.

It was the only area of the Pentagon with a sprinkler system, and it had been reconstructed with a web of steel columns and bars to withstand bomb blasts. The steel reinforcement, bolted together to form a continuous structure through all of the Pentagon's five floors, kept that section of the building from collapsing for 30 minutes—enough time for hundreds of people to crawl out to safety. The area struck by the plane also had blast-resistant windows—2 inches thick and 2,500 pounds each—that stayed intact during the crash and fire. It had fire doors that opened automatically and newly built exits that allowed people to get out.[40

As for shooting down the planes at what point do you shoot the down? When they don't respond to you? Just before they impact? When the fly towards a city? And if there were no other hijackings you would have destroyed a plane with civilians that there was no need to. Thoses questions I am sure were discussed by people with a lot more access to useful information on that day than any of us had.

Well that's my 2 cents

[jeffkrol]

just for fun.

Youtu.be

Youtu.be

[Nesster]

Whatever else this illustrates, I think it illustrates the capabilities of humans when in different states of consciousness. Someone on a suicide mission I would imagine goes into a trance state where certain autonomic, intuitive and goal-servo types of reactions - without interference from self-consciousness - take over and things normally not possible become possible.

Perhaps if someone hypnotized a flight stimulator pilot to the same point of one-pointedness, there might be a better chance of replicating the actual flight results.