How's it going in Wisconsin?

Nesster · 06-07-2012, 05:29 AM

Lets face it, the Voice of the People is heard. It won't change till things get much worse...

jeffkrol · 06-07-2012, 05:56 AM

Originally posted by Nesster

Lets face it, the Voice of the People is heard. It won't change till things get much worse...

agreed and sad because it doesn't "have to be" that way..........

Quote:

But Franklin estimates those warring camps each contain "only" about 40% of the Wisconsin electorate, leaving another 15% or 20% of voters more or less in play. When Franklin gave voters in his poll three possible statements to describe their feelings about Walker, about 40% said they liked what he's doing, about 40% said they didn't like what he's doing, and just under 20% said they liked what he's doing but not how he's doing it. In other words, they were conflicted.

Swing voters delivered for Walker - JSOnline

GeneV · 06-07-2012, 06:04 AM

Wasn't there also a lot of resentment about the whole concept of a recall? A large percentage of voters, including a big chunk of those who did not approve of Walker, felt that recalls should happen only for misconduct. I'm not sure I totally disagree. It went the other way in CA, and that turned into a ridiculous circus. Very little good has come there from these kinds of exercises.

Nesster · 06-07-2012, 06:08 AM

There you have another example of the difference between a real human being and both a corporation and many politicians

: the real human applies their sense of fair play to their decisions, even if that hurts them in the short run... while corporate entities and politicians do not. Sociobiology posits that the fair play altruism is essential for a social troupe animal - it promotes the survival of the group and therefore the individuals therein. Thus it is that a real human has Providence created inalienable rights, while a corporation and politician have rights created and regulated by the state, i.e. we the people.

jeffkrol · 06-07-2012, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by GeneV

Wasn't there also a lot of resentment about the whole concept of a recall? A large percentage of voters, including a big chunk of those who did not approve of Walker, felt that recalls should happen only for misconduct. I'm not sure I totally disagree. It went the other way in CA, and that turned into a ridiculous circus. Very little good has come there from these kinds of exercises.

My bottom line in this is when a "one of" situation occurres you don't limit rights on it.
One of our counties has almost yearly recalls..

Quote:

Wanggaard's district - closely matched between Republicans and Democrats - covers much of Racine County. It's been one of the most volatile in recent Wisconsin history, flipping back and forth five times between the two parties in the last 22 years.

almost all recalls (in our state) were on a "one item" basis...

The only thing w/ the gov. recall is COST which when viewed in the context of the entire state budget is a "pittance"... THAT is what bothers me.. determining right and wrong by what it cost in $'s is a very, very, fundamentally scarey idea, no matter how practical.....

walker got in power on a recall (one arguement against them) and preached to the high heavens how it was the "will of the people" suddenly now it is a bad thing??
This time around though he now doesn't have to say a peep.. his minions will speak for him.....

If the "founders" put a cost benefit analysis on the Revolution we'd be celebrating the queen's jubilee.........

AND tea was cheaper through the crown than the black market US tea.....

Ratmagiclady · 06-07-2012, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

Wasn't there also a lot of resentment about the whole concept of a recall? A large percentage of voters, including a big chunk of those who did not approve of Walker, felt that recalls should happen only for misconduct. I'm not sure I totally disagree. It went the other way in CA, and that turned into a ridiculous circus. Very little good has come there from these kinds of exercises.

Frankly, there *was* misconduct. Blatantly.

Walker cancelled important programs and demanded to remove basic labor rights to *pay for* a 'budget shortfall' he *deliberately created* in the first place. By giving tax breaks to the rich that *weren't* voted for and selling half the state, not to mention half of the block around the state house *to the Koch Brothers.*

Not to mention turning down a very popular and much-needed train project cause it sounded un-Teabaggey' When the whole state knows it's just an asinine place to not have trains.

Money money money. Koch Bros money.

And the Republicans in Wisconsin have never been afraid for some reason to *blatantly* use dirty tricks. Since the 2004 elections, at least. You can look right *at* them while they're stealing election signs and replacing them with their own.... (I literally caught them doing this on my own front lawn, and I wasn't even the one who put the sign there in the first place.) then insisting this is 'the will of the people....If you let us bully you at the polls... While we make sure there aren't enough machines in districts we don't like and 'challenge' everyone we don't like the looks of, then insist the polls close on time even if there are still lines of voters for blocks. '

When I say they play dirty in Wisconsin, that ought to say something coming from a Bostonian.

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06-07-2012, 05:29 AM	#46
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072 Original Poster	Lets face it, the Voice of the People is heard. It won't change till things get much worse...

06-07-2012, 05:56 AM	#47
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by Nesster Lets face it, the Voice of the People is heard. It won't change till things get much worse... agreed and sad because it doesn't "have to be" that way.......... Quote: But Franklin estimates those warring camps each contain "only" about 40% of the Wisconsin electorate, leaving another 15% or 20% of voters more or less in play. When Franklin gave voters in his poll three possible statements to describe their feelings about Walker, about 40% said they liked what he's doing, about 40% said they didn't like what he's doing, and just under 20% said they liked what he's doing but not how he's doing it. In other words, they were conflicted. Swing voters delivered for Walker - JSOnline

06-07-2012, 06:04 AM	#48
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Wasn't there also a lot of resentment about the whole concept of a recall? A large percentage of voters, including a big chunk of those who did not approve of Walker, felt that recalls should happen only for misconduct. I'm not sure I totally disagree. It went the other way in CA, and that turned into a ridiculous circus. Very little good has come there from these kinds of exercises.

06-07-2012, 06:08 AM	#49
Nesster Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: NJ USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 13,072 Original Poster	There you have another example of the difference between a real human being and both a corporation and many politicians : the real human applies their sense of fair play to their decisions, even if that hurts them in the short run... while corporate entities and politicians do not. Sociobiology posits that the fair play altruism is essential for a social troupe animal - it promotes the survival of the group and therefore the individuals therein. Thus it is that a real human has Providence created inalienable rights, while a corporation and politician have rights created and regulated by the state, i.e. we the people.

06-07-2012, 06:41 AM	#50
jeffkrol Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Wisconsin USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,434	Originally posted by GeneV Wasn't there also a lot of resentment about the whole concept of a recall? A large percentage of voters, including a big chunk of those who did not approve of Walker, felt that recalls should happen only for misconduct. I'm not sure I totally disagree. It went the other way in CA, and that turned into a ridiculous circus. Very little good has come there from these kinds of exercises. My bottom line in this is when a "one of" situation occurres you don't limit rights on it. One of our counties has almost yearly recalls.. Quote: Wanggaard's district - closely matched between Republicans and Democrats - covers much of Racine County. It's been one of the most volatile in recent Wisconsin history, flipping back and forth five times between the two parties in the last 22 years. almost all recalls (in our state) were on a "one item" basis... The only thing w/ the gov. recall is COST which when viewed in the context of the entire state budget is a "pittance"... THAT is what bothers me.. determining right and wrong by what it cost in $'s is a very, very, fundamentally scarey idea, no matter how practical..... walker got in power on a recall (one arguement against them) and preached to the high heavens how it was the "will of the people" suddenly now it is a bad thing?? This time around though he now doesn't have to say a peep.. his minions will speak for him..... If the "founders" put a cost benefit analysis on the Revolution we'd be celebrating the queen's jubilee......... AND tea was cheaper through the crown than the black market US tea.....

06-07-2012, 10:36 PM	#51
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by GeneV Wasn't there also a lot of resentment about the whole concept of a recall? A large percentage of voters, including a big chunk of those who did not approve of Walker, felt that recalls should happen only for misconduct. I'm not sure I totally disagree. It went the other way in CA, and that turned into a ridiculous circus. Very little good has come there from these kinds of exercises. Frankly, there was misconduct. Blatantly. Walker cancelled important programs and demanded to remove basic labor rights to pay for a 'budget shortfall' he deliberately created in the first place. By giving tax breaks to the rich that weren't voted for and selling half the state, not to mention half of the block around the state house to the Koch Brothers. Not to mention turning down a very popular and much-needed train project cause it sounded un-Teabaggey' When the whole state knows it's just an asinine place to not have trains. Money money money. Koch Bros money. And the Republicans in Wisconsin have never been afraid for some reason to blatantly use dirty tricks. Since the 2004 elections, at least. You can look right at them while they're stealing election signs and replacing them with their own.... (I literally caught them doing this on my own front lawn, and I wasn't even the one who put the sign there in the first place.) then insisting this is 'the will of the people....If you let us bully you at the polls... While we make sure there aren't enough machines in districts we don't like and 'challenge' everyone we don't like the looks of, then insist the polls close on time even if there are still lines of voters for blocks. ' When I say they play dirty in Wisconsin, that ought to say something coming from a Bostonian.