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05-31-2012, 01:29 PM   #1
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John Edwards Is A Schmuck. But Not Guilty.


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Jury finds Edwards not guilty on 1 of 6 counts in campaign fraud trial; deadlocked on others.
Jury Finds Edwards Not Guilty on 1 of 6 Counts in Campaign Fraud Trial; Deadlocked on Others - ABC News

05-31-2012, 01:55 PM   #2
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Having a sensible labor policy doesn't actually exempt 'Southern Democrats' from their pants problems, being the lesson.
05-31-2012, 02:33 PM   #3
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A deadlock in a criminal case means the jury was not unanimous. That could mean 11 to 1 or 5 to 1. It will be interesting to hear whether the judge allows the vote of the deadlocked jury to be revealed. Sometimes this helps the parties know how to proceed.
06-01-2012, 04:31 AM   #4
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I have always thought that rather than a criminal case, there should be civil case against with financial penalties, but not jail time. Hard to prove criminal intent in my opinion, but certainly his donors would not have been giving him these "gifts" if he hadn't been running for president.

06-01-2012, 05:50 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I have always thought that rather than a criminal case, there should be civil case against with financial penalties, but not jail time. Hard to prove criminal intent in my opinion, but certainly his donors would not have been giving him these "gifts" if he hadn't been running for president.
Or just exposure ending his political career, which has already happened. Not everything is a crime. Even the jurors who "thought" he was guilty did not think the prosecution proved it. That means they really should have just rendered "not guilty." Not guilty does not mean proven innocent.

Not everything is a civil action, either. Who would sue? Do donors to a campaign really get to say on which kind of dubious move which gets their candidate closer to the office their money is spent? How much worse is keeping a mistress out of sight than the more common distraction of running false attack ads in the course of a campaign? How much was spent trying to keep the military record of GW Bush out of the public eye? The big "fraud" here is convincing the public you are a family guy who sticks by his ailing wife, and that is unlikely to be actionable.

The title of this thread is appropriate. This guy was not only immoral but amazingly stupid in his dealings with his mistress, and the nation dodged a VP bullet in 2004 just as in 2008.
06-01-2012, 06:51 AM   #6
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I am usually not a big fan of Alan Dershowitz, but his take on this debacle was appropriate today:

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This entire farce of a trial is part of a larger problem that infects not only America but other Western countries as well: the criminalization of policy differences and of personal sin. No one can justify what John Edwards did to his family, to American politics and to himself. He will forever pay a steep price for his selfishness and arrogance. But it is not a price that all Americans should have to pay by the distortion of the criminal justice system into a Rorschach test, in which the jury is asked to interpret vague action and attribute precise intentions to actions done with mixed motives.

The criminal law should be limited to what I call "Hamlet decisions." Before a person is charged with a serious crime, the government should have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant actually engaged in a "to be or not to be" decision--to be a felon or not to be a felon, to step over a clear line that separates criminality from sin! There is no reason to believe that John Edwards ever made that decision, because the law governing his conduct is vague, subjective and unclear in the extreme.
06-01-2012, 07:08 AM   #7
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Having a sensible labor policy doesn't actually exempt 'Southern Democrats' from their pants problems, being the lesson.
The brutal effects of puritanism lives on.

One of my favourite lines from big bang theory

Penny to Leonard " Why did you have sex with her?"
Leonard to Penny " Because she let me."

I once read a survey on American men where they basically said 80% of American men said they would only sleep with woman who was in love with them. That's not much of a limiting factor in terms of marriage and host of other factors. I guess 80% of American men are unfit for office. That's hardly democratic.
06-01-2012, 07:21 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by GeneV Quote
Or just exposure ending his political career, which has already happened. Not everything is a crime. Even the jurors who "thought" he was guilty did not think the prosecution proved it. That means they really should have just rendered "not guilty." Not guilty does not mean proven innocent.

Not everything is a civil action, either. Who would sue? Do donors to a campaign really get to say on which kind of dubious move which gets their candidate closer to the office their money is spent? How much worse is keeping a mistress out of sight than the more common distraction of running false attack ads in the course of a campaign? How much was spent trying to keep the military record of GW Bush out of the public eye? The big "fraud" here is convincing the public you are a family guy who sticks by his ailing wife, and that is unlikely to be actionable.

The title of this thread is appropriate. This guy was not only immoral but amazingly stupid in his dealings with his mistress, and the nation dodged a VP bullet in 2004 just as in 2008.
Well, I personally thought that the federal election commission should have meted out some fine -- not necessarily a court case. It is hard to prove "intent," but to me, these were essentially donations to the Edwards campaign and should have been treated as such. Money taken in by the candidate should be reported, whether it is given for haircuts, to hide mistresses, or otherwise. Lack of knowledge of the law is no excuse for not following it.

It just seems like there is way too much cloudiness surrounding campaign donations. Everything should be above board and reported, end of story. People running for public office are in the spot light and should be open with regard to all things within their control with regard to their campaigns.

Anyway, seems like John Edwards is now back to helping people in need, as was his original purpose in running for president, at least that's what he said in his post court case interview.

Edit: this really has nothing to do with sex, it has to do with transparency for government or want-to-be government office holders.


Last edited by Rondec; 06-02-2012 at 04:19 AM.
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