[stanislav]

If I am not mistaken European governments own land and it is not in possession of their food industry. Is this right? This makes me question their business structure and if it is really a free market. Without owning land it would seem to me there would be much less incentive to invest in it. Thus subventions could be inevitable when governments constantly have their hands in it such as excessive ownership, regulation and taxes.

Well actually the don't own land, at least not farming land. But they do pay subventions to the farmers depending on how much land they have, and what crops they grow on that land, even depending on where that land is. Sometimes they'll even pay farmers not to grow any crops.

If we are talking about milk-producers, then actually every one has a quota about how many cows he/she should have and subventions are payed for every milkilng cow. So if you have more cows than allowed then subventions are severely reduced. If you just want to start your milk producing busines from scratch then you have to buy a farm with already existing quota since it is virtually impossible to get the quota from scratch.

Surpluss is then exported or sent as humanitarian help to countries which can not export food to europe (oranges) since european producers have so big subventions.

Actually a funny part was a trade agreement between EU and Serbia about exporting serbian sugar surpluss to EU countries from some years ago. EU knew how much sugar Serbia could produce and about how big surpluss should be. The EU "internal" sugar market price was at that time about 3 times higher than the shugar price on world market. So some serbian "businesman" together with some goverment officials have exported all sugar produced that year together with some sugar from strategic reserves. To cover the deficit on the domestic market they imported sugar (at third of price) from sugar producing countries from south america (Brazil, Colombia...). Of course EU didn't like what has happened and then officials lower the quota Serbia could export to the EU market the following year... This is just to ilustrate the sicknes of the whole system

[jolepp]

Greece's centre-right New Democracy party has declared victory after Sunday's parliamentary elections, easing fears of a chaotic exit from the eurozone.

Early results had New Democracy winning nearly 30 per cent of the vote, which would give it 128 seats in the 300-seat parliament because of a 50-seat boost given to the victor under the Greek electoral system.
Coalition talks are now expected to start later today, with the most likely ally being the socialist Pasok party, which seems to have won 33 seats.

The anti-austerity radical leftist Syriza party came second with about 26 per cent of the vote after galvanising widespread anger against the cuts imposed by an unpopular multi-billion bailout deal with the European Union and the International Monetary Fund.
...

Pro-bailout party declares victory in Greek election - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

related: NYT/Krugman: Greece as Victim

[GeneV]

Interesting stats indicating that the Greeks work longer than just about any other EU country, and the actually spend less GDP per capita on social programs. The entire Euro crisis is a good opportunity to examine the costs and benefits of large-scale banking.

[jeffkrol]

Germany's Bild tabloid added to tensions ahead of the vote with an open letter telling Greeks their ATMs had euros only because "we put them there".

"If the parties who want to be through with austerity and reforms win the election and contravene every agreement, we will stop paying," it said.

ooooh Oligarchy blackmail.........

[GeneV]

ooooh Oligarchy blackmail.........

However, as Prof. Krugman points out, putting Euros in those ATMs did no real favors to most Greeks. It is a little like the subprime lenders bragging about putting you in a house.

[jeffkrol]

However, as Prof. Krugman points out, putting Euros in those ATMs did no real favors to most Greeks. It is a little like the subprime lenders bragging about putting you in a house.

[GeneV]

I also thought his example about the S&L crisis of the '80s was instructive. If Texas had been saddled with the full cost of the failures attributable to financial institutions that state, the state might be spending Tejano Dollars today. Here in NM, our second largest financial institution was an S&L. It was purchased in the late '80s by a Texas group in a hostile takeover and was in the hands of the FDIC within a year.

[boriscleto]

The Bush family was knee deep in the S&L crisis as was John McCain. Didn't seem to hurt their political careers at all...in fact the corporate media seems to have developed amnesia about the whole thing.

[Nesster]

War on Terror... First and Second Gulf Wars... CIA morale... Read My Lips... Mission Accomplished... wha? was there something with the SnL? Did they appear, and who was guest hosting? No memory, none.

[jeffkrol]

Greek vote: A win “for all Europe.”

Yes, that's what the headline read: "A win 'for all Europe.'" Not a win for the Greek people, of course. They will continue to suffer -- worse. The words "all Europe" are a synonym for "European banks and rich people."

In a joint statement, Eurozone officials said they remained “convinced that continued fiscal and structural reforms are Greece’s best guarantee to overcome the current economic and social challenges.” But Foreign Minister Guido Westerwelle of Germany, Europe’s de facto paymaster, told German radio that, though “there cannot be substantial changes to the agreements,” he could “well imagine talking again about timelines.”

Translation: So long as Greece finds some way to pay its debts to the banks, we really don’t give a damn how they do it.

The White House issued a statement expressing hope that Sunday’s results would “lead quickly to the formation of a new government that can make timely progress on the economic challenges facing the Greek people.”

Translation: We believe in magic. It’s the same magic that somehow will grow the U.S. economy if we cut our federal deficit spending.

ADDENDUM:

On the other hand, many things you hear about Greece just aren't true.

The Greeks aren't lazy - on the contrary, they work longer hours than almost anyone else in Europe, and much longer hours than Germans in particular.

Nor does Greece have a runaway welfare state, as conservatives like to claim; social expenditure as a percentage of gross domestic product, the standard measure of the size of the welfare state, is substantially lower in Greece than in, say, Sweden or Germany, countries that have so far weathered the European crisis pretty well.

So how did Greece get into so much trouble? Blame the euro.

Fifteen years ago Greece was no paradise, but it wasn't in crisis either. Unemployment was high but not catastrophic, and the nation more or less paid its way on world markets, earning enough from exports, tourism, shipping and other sources to more or less pay for its imports. Then Greece joined the euro, and a terrible thing happened: People started believing that it was a safe place to invest.

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/only-a-change-in-behaviour-in-brussel...#ixzz1yAxrQA6p

[jolepp]

related: NYT/Krugman: The Great Abdication

[jolepp]

related, Krugman's latest:

...
What would it really take to save Europe’s single currency? The answer, almost surely, would have to involve both large purchases of government bonds by the central bank, and a declared willingness by that central bank to accept a somewhat higher rate of inflation. Even with these policies, much of Europe would face the prospect of years of very high unemployment. But at least there would be a visible route to recovery.

Yet it’s really, really hard to see how such a policy shift could come about.

Part of the problem is the fact that German politicians have spent the past two years telling voters something that isn’t true — namely, that the crisis is all the fault of irresponsible governments in Southern Europe. Here in Spain — which is now the epicenter of the crisis — the government actually had low debt and budget surpluses on the eve of crisis; if the country is now in crisis, that’s the result of a vast housing bubble that banks all across Europe, very much including the Germans, helped to inflate. But now the false narrative stands in the way of any workable solution.

Yet misinformed voters aren’t the only problem; even elite European opinion has yet to face up to reality. To read the latest reports from European-based “expert” institutions, like the one released last week by the Bank for International Settlements, is to feel that you’ve entered an alternative universe, one in which neither the lessons of history nor the laws of arithmetic apply — a universe in which austerity would still work if only everyone had faith, and in which everyone can cut spending at the same time without producing a depression.
...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/02/opinion/krugman-europes-great-illusion.html

[fisheye freak]

The 3 months is nearly up.
Can the Greeks actually get their act together? Can any nation get their act together after they have had the insidious evil of collective laziness? What about the other EU members who are in a similar boat-Spain,Portugal,Ireland, Italy? How long will the Germans put up with bailing out their lazy neighbors before they realize that socialism must eventually fail? History in the making before our very eyes. Pity it is hard to photograph.

[jolepp]

related: Eurozone unemployment hits record high in May - Business - CBC News

[Jasvox]

Interesting stats indicating that the Greeks work longer than just about any other EU country, and the actually spend less GDP per capita on social programs. The entire Euro crisis is a good opportunity to examine the costs and benefits of large-scale banking.

Anyone who has traveled through or lived in Greece other than the touristy areas and Islands has known this to be true for as long as they have been alive. The" lazy Greek" myth is a convenient cliche those use who have no education of facts, both read or lived.

Jason