[Nesster]

I draw your attention to this post of mine:
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/film-processing-scanning-darkroom/189097-...ted-fixer.html

I'm musing on something that probably is very familiar to all of us: sometimes, for no apparent reason we end up doing something differently, sometimes bone-headedly, just because.

In this case, for whatever reason, I changed my film developing routine in several ways. I also knew the fixer was getting old, but the thought 'just one more film' kept ruling out any more sensible course of action. Finally, for whatever non-existent reason, I decided not to leave the film on the reel to re-fix later, with fresh fixer. And in my strange state, I briefly considered that I could still get 'one more film' through that fixer!

I submit that this is direct evidence of one of the basic mechanisms of evolution: random variation, in this case of behavior, that is biologically programmed into every living thing. With humans it takes a lot of procedure and tradition to try to bottle up this impulse; I'm afraid even then this is often a losing battle.

I further submit that spiritually this is also direct evidence of a basic Law of the universe: the Universe 'seeks' to occupy or try every possible permutation over time. In the old days, this sort of thing may have been seen as an 'occupation by a God' or spirit. Which in a sense it is.

I submit also that this random barely-conscious aberrant behavior is key to our cultural evolution, I mean how else was CHEESE invented, for example. Or Beer.

OK, with that all out of the way: let's hear your stories about being occupied by a god, or producing random behavioral variation. Also, are there other theories of why we do this stuff?

[Parallax]

I voted for Obama.

[Ratmagiclady]

I further submit that spiritually this is also direct evidence of a basic Law of the universe: the Universe 'seeks' to occupy or try every possible permutation over time. In the old days, this sort of thing may have been seen as an 'occupation by a God' or spirit. Which in a sense it is.

I submit also that this random barely-conscious aberrant behavior is key to our cultural evolution, I mean how else was CHEESE invented, for example. Or Beer.

OK, with that all out of the way: let's hear your stories about being occupied by a god, or producing random behavioral variation. Also, are there other theories of why we do this stuff?

Hrm, actually, I'm having some trouble trying to translate your particular framing of that experience into the words you're using. (I suppose, trying to take a little bit of some inspiration/random variation and put it on some 'Occupied by a God' level and assume 'The ancients must have stupidly thought this kind of thing was being God-ridden,' or something... which belies the actually better-known-than-some-assume facts about how people with spiritual knowledge about it actually would interpret such things: either random-seeming inspirations-acting-without-thinkings,


What constitutes, 'occupied' by a God, certainly, is something that sounds a little melodramatic, there. Some might say it was a little nudge of the elbow from a Muse or some other spirit, (Or maybe even a God, proper, if it was that cool a nudge, There aren't these hard separations for most. )

Celtic/druidic ways in particular, actually have much about seeking Inspiration, (that's even what one of the most common symbols of Druidry itself means, in part) which is very different from what some might call 'possession' or 'getting ridden,' ...certainly putting it on a scale like 'getting ridden by an orisha' a la Afro-Carribean practices, (which are actually pretty cool, that way: for their own reasons, it's more like 'lights out' from the point of view of the priest/ess: for many other cultures, it's a lot more like even a dialogue, or on rare and needful occasions, kind of letting Someone Else drive, but it's more like you're in the passenger seat than locked in the trunk or something. Even this is usually pretty rare, (even if you're kind of talented at it when that needs to happen: it's one thing my unfortunate experiences with PTSD and dissociative fugue is, you get some practice at recognizing what's happening, cause some of the same mechanisms are involved cognitively: (therefore, particularly, when that's Not You. But if it happens to *anyone,* they and certainly everyone else in the room *really* knows it. ) So, we're down to matters of degree.

And you may be inflating something small for a grand sense of the term, then projecting back, 'They must have been really wowed by not-much.' Whereas the relationships vary by culture: (Contrasting much of old Europe and North America and such with the Afro-Carribean ways, there's really much more of a sense of a constant interplay rather than a special 'breaking the rules' happening. Just in daily spiritual life. Usually the relationship with the Gods in, really, lots of cultures, is more where the Gods are guides and 'embodiments' (not a great word to use) rather than rulers... And that usually means that even if They're doing something through you, you're not learning anything if if you're not in the room. (Though your community might, and for some cultures it's really part of the point to depend on the community to teach what 'you' have said back to you: it works, but it's a different way.) ... I've seen it from the other side, too, when it's a 'Big Deal.'

But that sort of thing does more-commonly *does* go to less-spectacular things. Blessed indeed are the cheesemakers.

But, sure, stuff like that may happen. No less sacred *for* it, mind you, but depending on your point of view, most peoples of the history of the world more or less take this sort of thing in stride. Doesn't take too long a look at the Fenian cycle for that, speaking of things Irish. It just permeates how people really naturally deal with these things: actually trying to map this onto certain ideas of causation and 'otherworldlyness' retroactively is why people get weirded out about it. (I'm obviously a lot more rationalistic than people expect of 'mystics,' again by their own definitions, yes? I'm just thinking of the local Pagan 'let's go out for a beer' night, and, it's just a time here where a lot of us are at a bit of loose ends, myself not the least, for various reasons. And between that and just the flow of the city, there were more 'random interrupts' than you'd ever expect to want to rationalize. Definitely, me shuffling a couple of different decks of cards and having the *very* obvious progressions come up in just the right places, twice, appropriately, defies odds however you slice it, (even just the fact that the first one, my friend, who uses half the deck in a reading, sometimes, is like, 'This is all Major Arcana and court cards, except for this ten.... I'm like, 'Well, that happens if I ask big questions. Could be a royal flush in there, though." Is the action of hands shuffling cards much like whatever you described about old fixer? Point is about the cards, this is the most 'sciencey' probability-involving thing I can think of, but from a certain perspective, me doing that *twice,* and meanwhile the resident teen's seeing the same answer come up on some thing or other and wailing at this fact like a terrible imposition on how things are supposed to be, (A particular in involving, 'You're not wanting to see something, in the same place over and over again,' And everyone's not going, 'Wow, this 'proves' something,' it was more like when I look over and say, 'Girl, have you been at this all week?' (answer from all: Yes. Teenagers. ) Even in something like that, while there may be an art and a lot of subjectivity about *reading* them, the *sorting* is as randomized as throwing twenty or thirty seventy-two-sided dice. It's one reason I don't do it that much. But this is part of life. Particularly ours.

It doesn't mean the multiverse just cracked open... it's always *been* open, that way. All along. People have known this. It's part of why sometimes definition-based believings are so often destructive and confused/confusing about some things. And not to make it sound too casual, either. It's a world of wonders, both new and old. That's in all the 'little stuff,' too. It *seems* like a bigger deal when you've got to play Green Arrow for, say, Diana, and, yeah, pull off an uncanny shot, (The usual followup being, 'Now I've got to learn this properly, since I was given a start,' Fighting-stuff or being a guttepunk running around the woods like the Christians' St Francis was an Elven ranger, ...a lot of that came easier once shown. In certain matters: I think we all have instincts there waiting to be awakened) Music? That's harder. It's happened so many times that I could pick up a *new* musical instrument and just play. Really really well. With feeling and everything. Impress a lot of people. Once. I learned pretty quickly that it was really important to pay attention *in* those times, cause that's a chance to learn a little more. Why and how things work. Even understanding how and why to do the stuff that takes discipline and certain senses we all have, applied properly.


The whole question of 'Is everything to be worked back from 'If or why to believe what,' cause that's how to normally-believe and define,' ..one misses out. Anyone who's ever played Trivial Pursuit with a reader, (don't look at the answer yourself, if you're wondering where she pulls stuff-she-don't know' out of.... (Reminds me of college, there, poor gal was getting really annoyed it wasn't actually testing her knowledge of trivia, didn't know why. After an hour or two, I was actually like, 'That was interesting, but she's a reader, nice talent, by the way, Jane, everyone be happy we found this, but, questioners, don't look at the answers, yourselves.' )


There's levels of irony there, especially given the importance of cards in people thinking like this, like when your nephew gets the junior magic kit and is like being like, 'What card am I holding up?' And you're trying to talk to adult relatives, so you say "Three of clubs.' Etc etc. And then you realize you've been giving too many right answers, and then you're trying to fake mentalist card tricks (that you don't actually have any idea how to do) with 'real magic' in order to not create a family crisis... .without lying. Or stealing wonder from a kid by botching it deliberately.

In a more-connected world, this is not actually a problem apart from the same definitions and premises that actually get kids locked under actual stairs by actual 'Muggles.' (Or freaked-out Christians, for instance.) People *decide* and *define* some things as 'beyond the pale' or 'A really big deal' and that's kind of the problem. That they sometimes both refuse to see daily wonder and have major cosmological crises about them. Then often project this ignorance onto other peoples who *do* know a lot about this. In really sophisticated ways that aren't about the concerns of dogmatists or rationalizers thereof to begin with.

Big deals do exist, and happen, yes. Trivializing or inflating them neither grants wonder nor perspective, though. People know this. On at least a few levels.

It's part of why there's a certain difference in comportment and attitude between 'East coast shamans' and 'West Coast ones.' Certainly in Northeastern parlance, there's always a thing about, 'We're kind of slobs with somewhat weird jobs. If your full fig looks like Elliot Ness was a Royston crow, you might be on this particular job. Use an awful lot of Men In Black references. And the workers where they actually make those movies are really about their own place and time, particularly when it comes to *not-being-a-movie-reference.' Same reality, different places.

And it's all about mediating. That goes for whatever was up with your fixer thing. What have you learned. And what next?

The 'little' stuff, really, is the *good* stuff, I think, though. To my experience, when things get *really* spectacular, (Gods, I even describe that as 'Get Hollywood,' (which name has interesting double meanings, to speak of Druids) ...that usually means something's already out of hand. And needs to not be.


Is that helpful at all?


Of course, my fixer isn't getting any younger while I waffle over 'Can I get some fresh stuff before souping this stuff I couldn't get to months ago.' Perhaps you've brought us a little message of your own. Inspiration and such happens all the time. If you want to rationalize something, Figure out what happened, rather than try to make the universe fall in line with a certain framing.


*flashback to high school days, after once again narrowly-escaping a shoot with our lives,* me like, "Wow: After this month, some kind of Goddess of Mercy must really be looking out for stupid stupid Canon shooters. and with my thanks." ... (propping up FTb on shoulder while dramatically-ironic pop-up video caption says, 'This camera brand was named for Kwannon, the Japanese spelling of the boddhisattva of mercy.')


Hel, before anyone called me the 'Rat Lady' or anyone in America had heard of things, my *first* sweetie bought me a little token,in India which ten or fifteen years later and a whole other story later as well, it'd turned out came from that temple in India where the rats are famously-welcomed. It was an interesting day when I found out about what I'd been carrying all along.


I think this society in particular sees the connectedness of things and experiences as some 'alien thing' then marvels/corrects/argues/ looks for 'yes/no' definitions when they fail to be able to ignore that. Or think it has anything to do with throwing Reason to the winds.

Quite the contrary. We're already swimming in connection. People have to be *taught* to be unduly scared of that.

[Nesster]

Hrm, actually, I'm having some trouble trying to translate your particular framing of that experience into the words you're using. (I suppose, trying to take a little bit of some inspiration/random variation and put it on some 'Occupied by a God' level and assume 'The ancients must have stupidly thought this kind of thing was being God-ridden,' or something... which belies the actually better-known-than-some-assume facts about how people with spiritual knowledge about it actually would interpret such things: either random-seeming inspirations-acting-without-thinkings,


What constitutes, 'occupied' by a God, certainly, is something that sounds a little melodramatic, there. Some might say it was a little nudge of the elbow from a Muse or some other spirit, (Or maybe even a God, proper, if it was that cool a nudge, There aren't these hard separations for most. )

RML, I'll have to read your post a few more times to get everything therein... you know my intent was to sow a little seed or two with the 'heathens' (i.e. not you) and to tweak the others (i.e. you) with a little funny.

There is a continuum, plus a way to extract and develop specific bits. At the most prosaic, it is a boneheaded drive to do something boneheaded even if you know better. At the more inspired, well, you write about that above.

Btw, I used to play cards with my daughter when she was young. As soon as we got the rules and basic strategies down pat we started to play on some interesting levels, influencing / sensing the cards to be played, and then resisting the influence, and then faking that out via reverse psychology. It was a lot of fun, and an essential thing I taught all the kids. Your card trick story reminded me of this.

[cardinal43]

I voted for Obama.

By far, one of your better decisions.