ID for rally, but not for voting

**Jack** · 06-24-2012, 07:59 AM

Call Holder! Obama Demands ID for Rally Entrances

mikemike · 06-25-2012, 07:15 AM

There was a bit of a controversy last time Obama came to visit New Orleans, he spoke at a town hall at the University of New Orleans (UNO). You had to get preregistered with an e-mail address and selected from a lottery to get a ticket to attend the event and there was supposed to be preference for university students. At the event the attendees from UNO were vastly outnumbered by attendees from each of the three historically black colleges - Southern University of New Orleans, Dillard, and Xaviar - which combined have 3000 fewer matriculates than UNO's 10,000 and there was virtually no one there from Tulane, Loyola, or any of the other New Orleans colleges and universities.

GeneV · 06-25-2012, 07:27 AM

Comparing rallies to voting is apples to oranges. Just like the comparison in the article to driving, cashing a check, and other matters listed in the article. There may be good reasons to know who is at a rally.

I remember going to a Kerry speech (I'd never seen the man in person) in 2004 at a relatively small venue which held a few hundred people. There were no invitations, and the Kerry campaign had made a big deal of the fact that you needed an invitation and an ID to go to the Bush rallies. The GOP bussed in several busloads of supporters who wore the same tee shirt and carried flip-flop shoes. You could hardly hear the speakers over the chants and the slapping sandals over the heads. It really wasn't fair to those who came to find out something about the candidate.

Jmoyer · 07-04-2012, 06:05 PM

This is why we need ID for voting

You Tube

Ratmagiclady · 07-05-2012, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Jmoyer

This is why we need ID for voting

No it's not: the real problem is large-scale voter suppression and places like Florida where less than 2 percent of absentee ballots weren't just never counted last time, etc, etc, not some individual figuring out a way to vote twice.

GeneV · 07-05-2012, 08:49 AM

There is no constitutional right to attend a rally.

mikemike · 07-05-2012, 08:58 AM

Originally posted by Ratmagiclady

No it's not: the real problem is large-scale voter suppression and places like Florida where less than 2 percent of absentee ballots weren't just never counted last time, etc, etc, not some individual figuring out a way to vote twice.

I'm having trouble parsing the meaning of this sentence with all the double negatives. But if you are saying that some ballots were never counted than it might have been because those ballots were inconsequential to the results. If the winner won by a margin of more than 2% and 2% of ballots were cast as absentee mail-in ballots that require a voting clerk to open the envelope, lookup the person's record in the computer system, and do data entry to cast their ballot then that labor intensive process is not done unless that vote could influence the results.

les3547 · 07-05-2012, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Jmoyer

This is why we need ID for voting
O'Keefe votes using Eric Holder's name - YouTube

Uggg, your logic sucks. The problem in that video is a poorly trained worker. The actual situation is Republican politicians grossly exaggerating a problem so they can suppress voting. IOW, they lie. For example:

Quote:

Despite A 0.0002 Percent Rate Of Voter Fraud, Reince Priebus Claims Wisconsin Is ‘Riddled With Voter Fraud’

Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus made a curious claim on MSNBC today, alleging that Wisconsin is a state “that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud.”

The problem? A recent study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice found just seven cases of voter fraud out of three million votes cast in Wisconsin during the 2004 election, a fraud rate of 0.0002 percent. All seven of these cases involved persons with felony convictions who weren’t eligible to vote after being released from prison.

Unfazed by the minuscule incidence of actual voter fraud – comedian Stephen Colbert joked that “our democracy is under siege from an enemy so small it could be hiding anywhere” – Priebus went on MSNBC to defend Wisconsin’s new photo ID requirement and yesterday’s anti-voting rights measure passed by the House GOP. When host Martin Bashir pushed the RNC Chair about his party’s motivations for restricting voting rights, Priebus pointed to his home state of Wisconsin and declared, “I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay?”

BASHIR: Just last night Republicans in the House voted to dismantle the Election Assistance Commission, the sole purpose of which is to make sure states meet voting standards that prevent fraud. Why would Republicans do that if they’re honestly concerned about preventing fraud? [...]
PRIEBUS: Well listen, I don’t want to get into the specifics here, but let me tell you something. I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay? They had the smokes-for-votes exchange in Milwaukee. This is something that has nothing to do with constitutional rights of the people who are committing the fraud, it has to do with the constitutional rights of people under our Constitution that one person gets one vote, not two or three or four or five, by not having reasonable voting standards in this country to make sure that fraud doesn’t occur.

Watch it:

Priebus lies that Wisconsin is "riddled with voter fraud" - YouTube

Research has found that voters are 39 times more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud at the polls, and 3,500 times more likely to report a UFO encounter.

**Jack** · 07-05-2012, 06:49 PM

You Tube

You Tube

larryinlc · 07-05-2012, 07:11 PM

What are there? Like 4 or 5 members?

My favorite quote from Philly dot com.

FOR A POLITICAL movement that serves as a 50,000-watt boogeyman for conservative talk radio in America, finding your local representative of the New Black Panther Party is not easy.

New Black Panthers: Noisy but small - Philly.com

Jmoyer · 07-05-2012, 10:15 PM

In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court recognized the threat posed by voter fraud and ruled that Indiana's photo ID requirement was a legitimate, non-discriminatory means of protecting the integrity of elections.

The Texas attorney general has secured more than 50 voter fraud convictions.

Nov 2010: The voter fraud hall of shame: Milwaukee voter fraud conviction makes ACORN’s 2010 total at least 15
The voter fraud hall of shame: Milwaukee voter fraud conviction makes ACORN?s 2010 total at least 15 | The Daily Caller

magkelly · 07-06-2012, 05:30 AM

Do any of you folks actually believe anymore that what you choose to do at the polls makes one iota of difference? On the small issues, local officials maybe you still matter, but when it comes to electing the President et all it doesn't matter what the popular vote is. All that matters is what's going on in the Electoral College. Read the Wiki. They don't have to vote your preference and sometimes they don't. Who average Joe or Jane wants for President et all is actually pretty irrelevant. I pretty much gave up on getting all starry eyed over politics years ago. Politicians all lie to get the job then do whatever they want. I've never in my whole life seen an "honest" politician. I wish I had. Yeah, that makes me cynical, but then again I don't have to face disappointment when my favorite candidate turns out to have clay feet. Look at what happened with Obama. So many people went crazy supporting him and now a lot of those same people are bitterly disappointed with him. They don't know who to vote for now. They don't want Romney but they don't really feel too comfortable with Obama anymore either. All that idealism and optimism totally crushed. It's very sad.

**Jack** · 07-08-2012, 08:53 AM

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=203992246370997&set=o.355080727850451&type=3&theater

ElJamoquio · 07-08-2012, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by GeneV

There is no constitutional right to attend a rally.

I can see how you'd think that. I can see valid arguments on both sides.

I don't recall a constitutional right to vote. I can see valid arguments on both sides, but I'm surprised a lawyer would imply that there is a constitutional right to vote.

I'm not in favor of disenfranchising people but I don't see how showing an ID is unreasonable. Of course voter fraud, or even suspicion of voter fraud, in effect disenfranchises people.

GeneV · 07-09-2012, 12:45 AM

Originally posted by ElJamoquio

I can see how you'd think that. I can see valid arguments on both sides.

I don't recall a constitutional right to vote. I can see valid arguments on both sides, but I'm surprised a lawyer would imply that there is a constitutional right to vote.

9 Lawyers in black robes have done a lot more than "implied" there are rights associated with voting that are protected by the constitution. Not so much with attending rallies.

06-24-2012, 07:59 AM	#1
Jack Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Georgia Photos: Gallery Posts: 197	ID for rally, but not for voting Call Holder! Obama Demands ID for Rally Entrances

06-25-2012, 07:27 AM	#3
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Comparing rallies to voting is apples to oranges. Just like the comparison in the article to driving, cashing a check, and other matters listed in the article. There may be good reasons to know who is at a rally. I remember going to a Kerry speech (I'd never seen the man in person) in 2004 at a relatively small venue which held a few hundred people. There were no invitations, and the Kerry campaign had made a big deal of the fact that you needed an invitation and an ID to go to the Bush rallies. The GOP bussed in several busloads of supporters who wore the same tee shirt and carried flip-flop shoes. You could hardly hear the speakers over the chants and the slapping sandals over the heads. It really wasn't fair to those who came to find out something about the candidate. Last edited by GeneV; 06-25-2012 at 08:04 AM.

07-09-2012, 12:45 AM	#15
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by ElJamoquio I can see how you'd think that. I can see valid arguments on both sides. I don't recall a constitutional right to vote. I can see valid arguments on both sides, but I'm surprised a lawyer would imply that there is a constitutional right to vote. 9 Lawyers in black robes have done a lot more than "implied" there are rights associated with voting that are protected by the constitution. Not so much with attending rallies. Last edited by GeneV; 07-09-2012 at 05:48 AM.

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06-25-2012, 07:15 AM	#2
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	There was a bit of a controversy last time Obama came to visit New Orleans, he spoke at a town hall at the University of New Orleans (UNO). You had to get preregistered with an e-mail address and selected from a lottery to get a ticket to attend the event and there was supposed to be preference for university students. At the event the attendees from UNO were vastly outnumbered by attendees from each of the three historically black colleges - Southern University of New Orleans, Dillard, and Xaviar - which combined have 3000 fewer matriculates than UNO's 10,000 and there was virtually no one there from Tulane, Loyola, or any of the other New Orleans colleges and universities.

07-05-2012, 08:40 AM	#5
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by Jmoyer This is why we need ID for voting No it's not: the real problem is large-scale voter suppression and places like Florida where less than 2 percent of absentee ballots weren't just never counted last time, etc, etc, not some individual figuring out a way to vote twice.

07-05-2012, 08:49 AM	#6
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	There is no constitutional right to attend a rally.

07-05-2012, 08:58 AM	#7
mikemike Inactive Account Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Orleans Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,053	Originally posted by Ratmagiclady No it's not: the real problem is large-scale voter suppression and places like Florida where less than 2 percent of absentee ballots weren't just never counted last time, etc, etc, not some individual figuring out a way to vote twice. I'm having trouble parsing the meaning of this sentence with all the double negatives. But if you are saying that some ballots were never counted than it might have been because those ballots were inconsequential to the results. If the winner won by a margin of more than 2% and 2% of ballots were cast as absentee mail-in ballots that require a voting clerk to open the envelope, lookup the person's record in the computer system, and do data entry to cast their ballot then that labor intensive process is not done unless that vote could influence the results.

07-05-2012, 09:27 AM	#8
les3547 Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Sebastopol, California Photos: Albums Posts: 2,020	Originally posted by Jmoyer This is why we need ID for voting O'Keefe votes using Eric Holder's name - YouTube Uggg, your logic sucks. The problem in that video is a poorly trained worker. The actual situation is Republican politicians grossly exaggerating a problem so they can suppress voting. IOW, they lie. For example: Quote: Despite A 0.0002 Percent Rate Of Voter Fraud, Reince Priebus Claims Wisconsin Is ‘Riddled With Voter Fraud’ Republican National Committee Chairman Reince Priebus made a curious claim on MSNBC today, alleging that Wisconsin is a state “that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud.” The problem? A recent study by the nonpartisan Brennan Center for Justice found just seven cases of voter fraud out of three million votes cast in Wisconsin during the 2004 election, a fraud rate of 0.0002 percent. All seven of these cases involved persons with felony convictions who weren’t eligible to vote after being released from prison. Unfazed by the minuscule incidence of actual voter fraud – comedian Stephen Colbert joked that “our democracy is under siege from an enemy so small it could be hiding anywhere” – Priebus went on MSNBC to defend Wisconsin’s new photo ID requirement and yesterday’s anti-voting rights measure passed by the House GOP. When host Martin Bashir pushed the RNC Chair about his party’s motivations for restricting voting rights, Priebus pointed to his home state of Wisconsin and declared, “I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay?” BASHIR: Just last night Republicans in the House voted to dismantle the Election Assistance Commission, the sole purpose of which is to make sure states meet voting standards that prevent fraud. Why would Republicans do that if they’re honestly concerned about preventing fraud? [...] PRIEBUS: Well listen, I don’t want to get into the specifics here, but let me tell you something. I come from a state in Wisconsin that was absolutely riddled with voter fraud, okay? They had the smokes-for-votes exchange in Milwaukee. This is something that has nothing to do with constitutional rights of the people who are committing the fraud, it has to do with the constitutional rights of people under our Constitution that one person gets one vote, not two or three or four or five, by not having reasonable voting standards in this country to make sure that fraud doesn’t occur. Watch it: Priebus lies that Wisconsin is "riddled with voter fraud" - YouTube Research has found that voters are 39 times more likely to be struck by lightning than commit voter fraud at the polls, and 3,500 times more likely to report a UFO encounter.

07-05-2012, 07:11 PM	#10
larryinlc Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Wisconsin USA Posts: 993	What are there? Like 4 or 5 members? My favorite quote from Philly dot com. FOR A POLITICAL movement that serves as a 50,000-watt boogeyman for conservative talk radio in America, finding your local representative of the New Black Panther Party is not easy. New Black Panthers: Noisy but small - Philly.com

07-05-2012, 10:15 PM	#11
Jmoyer New Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 10	In 2008 the U.S. Supreme Court recognized the threat posed by voter fraud and ruled that Indiana's photo ID requirement was a legitimate, non-discriminatory means of protecting the integrity of elections. The Texas attorney general has secured more than 50 voter fraud convictions. Nov 2010: The voter fraud hall of shame: Milwaukee voter fraud conviction makes ACORN’s 2010 total at least 15 The voter fraud hall of shame: Milwaukee voter fraud conviction makes ACORN?s 2010 total at least 15 \| The Daily Caller

07-06-2012, 05:30 AM	#12
magkelly Veteran Member Join Date: May 2010 Photos: Gallery Posts: 5,901	Do any of you folks actually believe anymore that what you choose to do at the polls makes one iota of difference? On the small issues, local officials maybe you still matter, but when it comes to electing the President et all it doesn't matter what the popular vote is. All that matters is what's going on in the Electoral College. Read the Wiki. They don't have to vote your preference and sometimes they don't. Who average Joe or Jane wants for President et all is actually pretty irrelevant. I pretty much gave up on getting all starry eyed over politics years ago. Politicians all lie to get the job then do whatever they want. I've never in my whole life seen an "honest" politician. I wish I had. Yeah, that makes me cynical, but then again I don't have to face disappointment when my favorite candidate turns out to have clay feet. Look at what happened with Obama. So many people went crazy supporting him and now a lot of those same people are bitterly disappointed with him. They don't know who to vote for now. They don't want Romney but they don't really feel too comfortable with Obama anymore either. All that idealism and optimism totally crushed. It's very sad.

07-08-2012, 08:53 AM	#13
Jack Site Supporter Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Georgia Photos: Gallery Posts: 197 Original Poster	https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=203992246370997&set=o.355080727850451&type=3&theater

07-08-2012, 03:03 PM	#14
ElJamoquio Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,873	Originally posted by GeneV There is no constitutional right to attend a rally. I can see how you'd think that. I can see valid arguments on both sides. I don't recall a constitutional right to vote. I can see valid arguments on both sides, but I'm surprised a lawyer would imply that there is a constitutional right to vote. I'm not in favor of disenfranchising people but I don't see how showing an ID is unreasonable. Of course voter fraud, or even suspicion of voter fraud, in effect disenfranchises people.