[Jack]

Fraudulent and Foolish: ATF Agent on the Run from U.S. Government, Not Cartels
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2012/06/25/Fraudulent-and-Foolish-Th...st-and-Furious

People closely related to the investigation have said that Fast and Furious was all part of an agenda that this administration had from the day Obama took office.

Like a chess game, the pieces started moving into place when President Obama came out with the statement that “90% of the weapons the cartels use are coming from the United States,” referring to a June 2009 U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) report to Congress on U.S. efforts to combat arms trafficking to Mexico.

Any of us that have covered the cartels for the past few years knew that assertion was “90% B.S.” The statement was proven many times over to be false and misleading, but that really didn’t seem to matter to anyone in the administration. However, they did quit talking about it in public.

Every ATF agent I have spoke to has told me virtually the same thing--that to allow those “guns to walk” went against everything they had ever been trained or taught to do. And, in fact, they were not made aware that these guns were going to be allowed to walk until the last moment. The operation was deliberately designed and executed as to not allow anyone, including the agent in charge, to know the end game.

if the agents on the ground were allowed to talk, which two have so far, it would lead to the steps of the Attorney General Holder’s office and, as it turns out, the White House, as evidenced by the President claiming Executive Privilege over the matter.

I have a source that works for the Juarez cartel and its subsidiaries--Oddly enough, it wasn’t the cartel he’s afraid of. He’s more afraid of what the U.S. government will do to him because of the information he has. Nearly one half of the weapons that were allowed to walk came thru the El Paso corridor, and he was instrumental in that process. But now he’s on the run from the same people that paid him to do what he did.

[jogiba]

The ATF began Project Gunrunner as a pilot project in Laredo, Texas, in 2005 and expanded it as a national initiative in 2006. Project Gunrunner is also part of the Department of Justice’s broader Southwest Border Initiative, which seeks to reduce cross-border drug and firearms trafficking and the high level of violence associated with these activities on both sides of the border.[

Project Gunrunner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bush was POTUS in 2006.

[Nesster]

Whoever it was, not one of their brighter ideas.

[larryinlc]

Quite simply, there's a fundamental misconception at the heart of the Fast and Furious scandal. Nobody disputes that suspected straw purchasers under surveillance by the ATF repeatedly bought guns that eventually fell into criminal hands. Issa and others charge that the ATF intentionally allowed guns to walk as an operational tactic. But five law-enforcement agents directly involved in Fast and Furious tell Fortune that the ATF had no such tactic. They insist they never purposefully allowed guns to be illegally trafficked. Just the opposite: They say they seized weapons whenever they could but were hamstrung by prosecutors and weak laws, which stymied them at every turn.

"Republican senators are whipping up the country into a psychotic frenzy with these reports that are patently false," says Linda Wallace, a special agent with the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation unit who was assigned to the Fast and Furious team (and recently retired from the IRS). A self-described gun-rights supporter, Wallace has not been criticized by Issa's committee.

The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features

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Last edited by MRRiley; 09-24-2012 at 12:50 PM. Reason: removed unnecessary bold text in entire post

[Winder]

Regardless of what happened or why the government need to be transparent in the investigation. Hiding behind executive privilege only makes it look like you have something to hide. If there is nothing there then put it all out in the open and Issa ends up looking really bad. But if there is something then Issa is going to make a career out of this.

[GeneV]

Regardless of what happened or why the government need to be transparent in the investigation. Hiding behind executive privilege only makes it look like you have something to hide. If there is nothing there then put it all out in the open and Issa ends up looking really bad. But if there is something then Issa is going to make a career out of this.

That is just a GOP talking point. The privilege asserted is for documents dated after February 4, 2011--after the Fast and Furious program was over. The committee seems more intent on getting internal documents pertaining to White House discussions of how to respond to the partisan investigation, which should remain private in the same way a communication between a lawyer and client is private.

[Winder]

That is just a GOP talking point. The privilege asserted is for documents dated after February 4, 2011--after the Fast and Furious program was over. The committee seems more intent on getting internal documents pertaining to White House discussions of how to respond to the partisan investigation, which should remain private in the same way a communication between a lawyer and client is private.

I'm sure Issa has political motives for pushing forward, but I would be willing to bet the White House has political motives of their own.

Rule 1.280(b)(5) Claims of Privilege or Protection of Trial Preparation Materials. When a party withholds information otherwise discoverable under these rules by claiming that it is privileged or subject to protection as trial preparation material, the party shall make the claim expressly and shall describe the nature of the documents, communications, or things not produced or disclosed in a manner that, without revealing information itself privileged or protected, will enable other parties to assess the applicability of the privilege or protection.

Holder needs to provide the privilege logs and the validity of the claim can be determined. Yes, the Republicans are on a witch hunt, and yes, the Democrats hare circling the wagons. Just tell us the truth so we can move on to the next witch hunt.

[GeneV]

I'm sure Issa has political motives for pushing forward, but I would be willing to bet the White House has political motives of their own.

Rule 1.280(b)(5) Claims of Privilege or Protection of Trial Preparation Materials. When a party withholds information otherwise discoverable under these rules by claiming that it is privileged or subject to protection as trial preparation material, the party shall make the claim expressly and shall describe the nature of the documents, communications, or things not produced or disclosed in a manner that, without revealing information itself privileged or protected, will enable other parties to assess the applicability of the privilege or protection.

Holder needs to provide the privilege logs and the validity of the claim can be determined. Yes, the Republicans are on a witch hunt, and yes, the Democrats hare circling the wagons. Just tell us the truth so we can move on to the next witch hunt.

Is Congress having this hearing in Florida? Did Congress adopt Florida's state court rule of procedure? What Holder has already disclosed publicly is more than what most provide.

[Phil1]

Simply amazing that Obama's Transparency is fogged by Executive Privilege for documents related to a US murder and Mexican murders that Obama and Holder had no knowledge of. There sure is a lot of scrambling to protect the innocent and pure and blame Bush, Reagan, Abe Lincoln and King George.

The papers requested "contain nothing" as per Holder. Hmmm. It smells more and more like a road kill tuna fish from a week ago. Come on leftys release the papers and mortify Issa in his unreasonable quest to find out WTH happened. I know, it is soooo unfair and a dirty trick.

My deepest apology to the Brian Terry Family for our government.

[les3547]

Simply amazing that Obama's Transparency is fogged by Executive Privilege for documents related to a US murder and Mexican murders that Obama and Holder had no knowledge of. There sure is a lot of scrambling to protect the innocent and pure and blame Bush, Reagan, Abe Lincoln and King George.

The papers requested "contain nothing" as per Holder. Hmmm. It smells more and more like a road kill tuna fish from a week ago. Come on leftys release the papers and mortify Issa in his unreasonable quest to find out WTH happened. I know, it is soooo unfair and a dirty trick.

My deepest apology to the Brian Terry Family for our government.

How do you know the documents being withheld do not involve field agents or investigations that might be endangered by making the documents public? Holder has said he is prohibited by law from releasing the documents in question because of security concerns, yet Issa et al propose some massive conspiracy simply must be what's behind Holder's reticence and Obama's backing him with executive privilege. I mean, if you have real proof (or any evidence whatsoever) that executive privilege isn't being properly invoked, please share that information with us all so we stop thinking what's going on is mere right wing political BS.

[Jack]

How do you know the documents being withheld do not involve field agents or investigations that might be endangered by making the documents public? Holder has said he is prohibited by law from releasing the documents in question because of security concerns, yet Issa et al propose some massive conspiracy simply must be what's behind Holder's reticence and Obama's backing him with executive privilege. I mean, if you have real proof (or any evidence whatsoever) that executive privilege isn't being properly invoked, please share that information with us all so we stop thinking what's going on is mere right wing political BS.

The protests in Congress over national security leaks are growing louder.

“I don’t think you have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what is going on here. You’ve had three leaks of intelligence that paint the president as a strong leader,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a member of the Armed Services Committee, told Greta Van Susteren on Fox News on Wednesday night.

Following Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) call for an investigation this week into the recent leak of classified information on U.S. intelligence operations, a host of other troubled lawmakers from both parties are voicing their concerns.

Read more: White House leaks meet growing outrage - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com

I guess it all depends on what information they choose to release and whom it effects.

[les3547]

The protests in Congress over national security leaks are growing louder.

“I don’t think you have to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out what is going on here. You’ve had three leaks of intelligence that paint the president as a strong leader,” Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), a member of the Armed Services Committee, told Greta Van Susteren on Fox News on Wednesday night.

Following Sen. John McCain’s (R-Ariz.) call for an investigation this week into the recent leak of classified information on U.S. intelligence operations, a host of other troubled lawmakers from both parties are voicing their concerns.

Read more: White House leaks meet growing outrage - MJ Lee - POLITICO.com

I guess it all depends on what information they choose to release and whom it effects.

What happened to the need for evidence before one accuses? The fact that the GOP doesn't require it before they accuse proves exactly what they are up to. IOW, the only thing "growing louder" is the sleezeball element of the right (which McCain has apparently joined) seizing on every opportunity to slander the President, no matter how ridiculous the charge, how big the lie, or how hypocritical the posturing. People like yourself who repeat unsupported innuendo are every bit as responsible for the dismal state of politics as those politicians directly involved in the effort to defame and demean.

[larryinlc]

Hmmm? Three likes in this short thread already? I didn't see anything particularly "like worthy", but hey, that's my opinion. Maybe we also need a dislike button to push. That might be more interesting.

Larry

[Winder]

Is Congress having this hearing in Florida? Did Congress adopt Florida's state court rule of procedure? What Holder has already disclosed publicly is more than what most provide.

The rules for discovery and privilege are basically the same for every state and the Federal Government. Federal Version:

5) Claiming Privilege or Protecting Trial-Preparation Materials.

(A) Information Withheld. When a party withholds information otherwise discoverable by claiming that the information is privileged or subject to protection as trial-preparation material, the party must:

(i) expressly make the claim; and

(ii) describe the nature of the documents, communications, or tangible things not produced or disclosed—and do so in a manner that, without revealing information itself privileged or protected, will enable other parties to assess the claim.

If you make the claim from privilege, then you have to prove that it is in fact privileged.

Is this a witch hunt? Sure. Was it a witch hunt when the House went after Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal? Absolutely. Clinton tried to use executive privilege then to cover his butt. Just because it is a witch hunt doesn't mean they wont find a witch. The problem with executive privilege is that it seems to be evoked more to protect political careers than to protect real sensitive information.

[seacapt]

Hmmm? Three likes in this short thread already? I didn't see anything particularly "like worthy", but hey, that's my opinion. Maybe we also need a dislike button to push. That might be more interesting.

Larry

I remember when Adam was first instituting the points system (pre like) and there was talk about having negative points (dislikes). The problem was they only wanted certain members to have negative point capabillity.